Author: Ela at Rain or Shine

[00:00:00] Ela Miranda: Holi Holi, and welcome to Building Blocks and Puzzle Pieces. This is a Rain or Shine podcast, and I am your host, Ela Miranda. I’m so excited to welcome you here under our umbrella and to dive into how to build your own accommodations, the building blocks you need to get there, and the puzzle pieces that you might need to solve along the way.

[00:00:18] I am here with Emily Griswold, left of center, and I am so excited for y’all to hear what we have to share today. So, Emily, why don’t you go tell us a little bit about yourself and the work that you do.

[00:00:34] Emily Griswold: By saying that I am a self proclaimed and very proud weirdo. It’s my favorite title that I begin with. I am a fur mom to so many great cats and a dog, and I have an extra one today. I have an extra dog today in my house. We are always accepting extra fur children. I’m a partner, I’m a friend, and I’m a really sensitive human.

[00:01:01] And I like to start by saying that rather than like the things that I do for labor, because sometimes I know for me that I was raised in a society where, yeah, you always start with like my achievements are. So I started saying that because I, as much as I love the work that I do, and you’re going to hear me jabber for a long time about the work that I do. I’m also a whole human and I have, I do the dishes, which I don’t hate. So that’s cool. But Cor-, I know, right. It’s just a hot tip.

[00:01:35] Ela Miranda: An accomplishment right there. Like, already you’re higher in my esteem, so.

[00:01:41] Emily Griswold: And I also don’t hate laundry. I know it’s weird. It’s I know. I know.

[00:01:45] I’m it’s soothing to me. Okay, we’ll get there anyway. So then what do I who am I? What do I do? So I was a teacher for a really long time mostly special education in the district of Columbia public schools, which is Washington DC. And in the United States Capitol, it’s a very interesting place.

[00:02:04] And after many years in the classroom, I decided to leave in 2019 and start my own thing. Originally my first business was called 1111 wellness, and that was specifically directed at taking care of school staff. Mostly because I felt like. I mean, public education is failing everyone. But I felt like the first step I could try to help was my fellow colleagues who were burning out and quitting and yelling at kids even though they didn’t want to.

[00:02:30] And then I loved that and I love that work still, but I really miss working directly with with Children and young people. So I’ve always had some kind of student on the side of some sort. And officially over the summer, I launched my business left of center, which is aimed at coaching neurodivergent teens in the areas of success and competence.

[00:02:54] And yeah, I get to hang out with. little versions of me which makes me really happy and we get to do cool projects and I get to show, get to show them all the evidence of how great they are. And teach them how to love laundry just like me.

[00:03:16] Ela Miranda: I love it.

[00:03:18] Emily Griswold: I’m on a mission to make laundry fans and laundry cool again, I guess maybe that’s my, maybe that should be my tagline.

[00:03:27] Ela Miranda: I mean, there’s like immediately some resistance that comes up to that for me, but like that probably just means that I also need the work that you are doing, so good job.

[00:03:38] Emily Griswold: Well, great.

[00:03:42] Ela Miranda: Yeah no, I love that comment though about like getting to work with like little versions of yourself, right? And I think a lot of people listening can relate to that as well because I think for a lot of entrepreneurs and people who end up starting businesses, right? You tend to choose things that you love because It’s something that was a hard one lesson for you, right?

[00:04:08] I know a lot of the systems work that I do is something that I absolutely could have used, especially because so much of it is based around accommodations. And advocating for myself and learning those lessons early on would have made such a huge difference. I love to hear that you are Supporting people in that. So what are some of the biggest building blocks that you help your clients, these teens put into place so that they can advocate for their own accommodations?

[00:04:42] Emily Griswold: So I have like kind of a three pronged approach and I, whenever I describe this to people, I love to speak like first to my visual folks because I love to paint pictures with the words that I say. So picture me this. If you’re driving, don’t close your eyes. But if you are in a place where you can think of like an intertwining circle and in the middle, I want you to picture the word freedom.

[00:05:06] Because that’s where we’re trying to get to and then on the outside of that circle and they all kind of interconnect and they blend the colors blend together because you can’t have one without the other. There are emotional and social skills, executive functioning skills and mentor support.

[00:05:25] And the reason why I pick those three things is because first research says that if you have one supportive adult relationship in your life. That you were like, I mean, this is not the real number, but I like to say 1, 700 times more likely to, to do the thing that you want to do, but also to be successful in our culture, which can sometimes be deemed being able to be financially independent, live in a place that feels supportive for you, work at a job that fills you up, which is something I want for all of my neurodivergent kiddos. The second the social and emotional skills, you know, part of neurodivergence is navigating the way your brain works.

[00:06:08] And one thing I’ve noticed is that I’m so grateful this generation is way more fluid of their acceptance of their neurodivergence. Like it’s a conversation. I mean, I’m That word was like, what are you talking about when I was younger? But now it’s that’s common. Everybody knows the word neurodivergent. A lot of people don’t know really what it means, but that’s okay.

[00:06:30] We’ll get there later. But I think the part we’re missing is that it’s one thing to claim that but it’s a different thing to understand what it means and how it impacts motivation and energy and mood and You know, whatever. There’s so many things that impacts. And so having that piece to help, you know, folks understand, like, this is why you feel so exhausted when you leave school and you have to take a two and a half hour nap.

[00:06:55] This is why, you know, the you switch tabs on your computer like a rabbit bunny when you’re trying to get your homework done. And then the last part of this is the executive functioning piece, right? So. That word is thrown around a ton. And I think, I’m very careful about how I use it. Cause I think it can be definitely a tool for like socializing people into a box.

[00:07:20] And I use it. The reason why I keep the word freedom in the middle of that circle is because executive function can be a tool to get more free. It doesn’t have to be a tool of like. You know, plan your calendar down to the 3 second mark, or, you know you have like 75 container store organization bins for your kitchen, like it’s executive functioning can be a tool to, you know, work toward a goal that you’ve always wanted to accomplish.

[00:07:51] It can be the thing that helps you, you know, start your makeup line or raise money for squirrels. Which I have done. We’ll talk about that in a minute. But those are really, those are the building blocks. Like those three pieces are what build my ultimate goal, which is freedom. Because I think, not I think, I believe that we live in a society and a culture that is determined to keep certain people small and in a box and certainly not free.

[00:08:19] And so my job is to facilitate freedom. And that’s how I do it.

[00:08:25] Ela Miranda: I love that. I really just need to know the story about the squirrels though. Okay.

[00:08:34] Emily Griswold: People are like, wait, what? So yeah, here’s the story. And for those of you listening, like, I hope that this releases something in your inner child that you may not have gotten a chance to explore because it’s certainly and that’s like you mentioned the beginning. So much of this is like a reclamation for me.

[00:08:53] And and I it’s that’s my favorite part of the work is like is I embrace even more weirdness every session that I do with a teenager. Yeah. So I have one particular student that I’ve been working with now for over a year. And this student is on the autism spectrum and has been formally diagnosed, but just as a mention, I work both with formal and folks who self diagnose because all of those things matter and are relevant.

[00:09:19] And this friend has always just had a real affinity for squirrels. Like he just, which I think is beautiful because If you’re listening from the U. S., like to us, they’re kind of like rodent y. They’re not very accepted as like a cute part of our culture. And they are, they’re very adorable, but he’s really latched onto their importance in our ecosystem.

[00:09:41] And he just notices them, which I think is wonderful. And so he, the reason that his parents, decided to start working with me is he was really struggling in school socially. He was having a hard time, you know, navigating and managing most interactions and situations. There were, there were some like maturity pieces too, where, where he was, you know, still interested in things that were quote unquote, not of his age level.

[00:10:11] And so kids were having a hard time relating to him. And then some of the typical things like his backpack was a mess and like, you know, it’s like, Not brushing his teeth or whatever. Right. So like the typical things that I’m used to working with. So we started working together and the, my philosophy with young people and with adults really is I call it, put it, putting black beans in brownies.

[00:10:33] So I don’t know if you’ve ever like seen this like ridiculous, like, quote unquote, mom hack where they like, yes. And then I put black beans and my kids now love vegetables. That’s what I do with kids. So I find out what they really love and what they’re very passionate about. And we work that into the skills that they need to be building.

[00:10:54] So he was all into squirrels and I was like, we’re going in on squirrels. And so we came up with like. How, you know, how do we raise awareness so more people care about them? How do we support injured squirrels? And we actually found a rescue organization who specifically bring squirrels back to health, like baby squirrels and adult squirrels.

[00:11:18] And it was great. And I was like, thank God this exists. And so the plan was, he was like, I want to raise money for them. So that they can keep doing their work. And I want to, you know, raise awareness for them so that more people know what they do and so on and so forth. So then we took a second thing he loves, which is chocolate ice cream, because who doesn’t.

[00:11:38] And we decided to come up with an ice cream stand. So we built a business model. We came up with a logo. He designed the menu. He learned how to make ice cream from scratch. And We had an ice cream stand over the summertime and yeah. For the squirrels, wild, wild, like project idea. But while we’re doing this, I’m teaching him how to have a direct conversation one on one with a customer, right?

[00:12:14] So we’re practicing, okay, this person’s going to come up. What are you going to say? How are you going to greet them? Right? We’re talking about how to navigate a grocery store. So he went shopping for the first time. This is the second year we’ve done it. So this year. He had to do chores in order to raise money, to be able to go get the material.

[00:12:33] So like staying consistent with, you know, taking care of a space and feeling proud of, you know, whatever. So it was, that was such, I love telling that story because that’s exactly the work that I do is that we take what you’re already good at. We show you how good you are at it. And then we give you the chance to put it on a stage because you deserve to be free in front of other people.

[00:13:02] And the cool part is, is that now he has so much evidence. Like I am capable of interacting one on one with people. I can talk about the things that I enjoy on a, like in an age appropriate conversation, right? I can share about something I’m passionate and a project that I worked on. And now this kid, I randomly get a text the other day that he’s on the news at school, just like, and I go to his next session.

[00:13:31] I was like, were you going to tell me? He’s like, yeah, it was fine. But that’s a correct response to Oh, of course I can be on the news. I ran an ice cream stand. This is like, this is cake. And I’m like as I’m like sobbing, like, Oh my god, I’m so proud of you. And he’s like, leave me alone. So that’s the squirrel story. And the squirrel, and the, the, the Wildlife Foundation was so fantastic.

[00:13:58] We ended up Zooming with them and they showed us like they were feeding a baby squirrel, and it was, yeah, it was adorable. So,

[00:14:06] Ela Miranda: Oh my god. That is so incredible. I love to, like, I love your entire approach, first of all. I love that we, like, have very similar approaches. Like, it’s always really fun to me to see, when other people also focus first on what you’re doing well and the things that you’re passionate about. Because I think that’s something that is just not often taught, especially to neurodivergent people, right?

[00:14:36] This world is so focused on negativity, and, like, humans in general have a negativity bias, and so it, like, it makes sense, right? But these are not, like, the systems that I think are built with our well being in mind. So, A, love that. B, I also love, too, this idea that, like, there’s always gonna be somebody else out there who cares about the things that you care about.

[00:15:02] Like, you know, It’s so funny because my, my grandma has like a huge garden and she has like bird feeders everywhere and she loves them. And so like squirrels are her like arch nemesis. So like, I accidentally grew up with like that conditioning, right? But then we moved to Arizona where like there are no squirrels.

[00:15:23] And so I go to camp in the summer and there are squirrels in the pine trees. And I’ve missed it so much.

[00:15:30] Emily Griswold:My student would be so proud of you and your growth. He really

[00:15:36] Ela Miranda: yeah. So but yeah, you know, like, I, I just love the idea that, like, when you have, like, the language to be able to talk about the things that you care about, there are always going to be people out there. Like, you’re never alone in the things that you care about. I just, I love that so much.

[00:16:02] Emily Griswold: I do too.

[00:16:02] Ela Miranda: My next question for you is maybe a little bit of a hot topic here. but I’m, I’m curious to know, like, as you’ve been building this business and like, as you’ve been moving into this. Sort of like new pathway, right? Working with different clients. What building blocks have you put in place to support yourself as a care worker?

[00:16:31] Emily Griswold: Thank you. So funny because I was at a school yesterday and this is like burnout time. So for folks listening, we’re like right around holiday quote unquote season, which of course our country is like so much joy and 90 percent of the population is like so much pain and grief and loss and of course none of us recognize that and also they’re in public schools so like That’s a dumpster fire within itself.

[00:16:57] And I was just walking around having conversations with people who are just totally burnt out. And somebody said to me, they’re like, Oh my gosh, like we’re all just like dumping on you. Like, what do you do for yourself? That’s like, great question. So therapy is step one, like non negotiable. And a fantastic therapist.

[00:17:16] Like I can’t, I literally cannot say enough good things about my therapist. And I’m so grateful because We also live in a time where like access to quality therapy is like literally finding a needle in a haystack. So I’m, Oh my gosh. I like praise my therapist after every session. And he’s like, it’s just my job.

[00:17:36] Like, and I’m like, I don’t care. You need to know how much. So that’s a first place. Second, building blocks of care of my animals. It’s why I talk about them. Like, I’m, I don’t know what I would do, but I don’t. I don’t know how people live without alive things in their home, but I certainly can’t do it.

[00:17:53] It’s just like such a source of joy and, and the unconditional love, like there’s nothing you could do to make them not love you. Well, I’m sure there are some things, but in this house they are spoiled, so they’re just fine with their life. Outside time, especially with my partner. Like I. I try to, as often as possible, be outside with the dog at least once a day.

[00:18:17] We live really close to a really big park in the city and she’s a hound dog. So she could just sniff for the rest of her life and be totally cool. And it’s actually good because she goes slow and that helps me slow down. She’s the sniffer of all things. And, you know, of course there are times where I’m like trying to get my heart rate up.

[00:18:36] And my dog is like, sorry, we have. There’s pee all over here. I have to sniff. So you’re gonna have to wait. And then the other thing for me, and this is why I think I work so well with teenagers because I’m a work in progress. Like, I don’t have and I tell them that like, I’m one step ahead of you, if that.

[00:18:55] Some days I’m probably a step behind you, especially this generation who is like, so open, accepting and loving to like, the pieces of their identities. I’m like, I’m behind. But I think my schedule is a huge building block for my success. Right? So looking at having time carved out to do the things that I love, whether that’s read or I love TV.

[00:19:18] Like I am a child that grew up in the early two thousands and TV was an important part of my being raised. So like great TV. food. I love food so much. It’s, it’s amazing. It’s, yeah, I’m not a, what is it called? Like eat to live for that every meal. I’m like, how can I have the most delicious thing? Yeah, food is a big one for me. And then the last and the most consistent thing I do is I have a really intense morning routine. My partner knows, like, do not disturb. And it is it’s really for, you know, as a person who is born with a

[00:20:04] Biological tendency for anxiety and, you know, substance abuse and a lot of other pieces. Being in tune and in touch with myself is a non negotiable. And it used to be. And this is something I talk often with kids like about whatever you do to care for yourself shouldn’t be like because you’re trying to fix yourself or make yourself better.

[00:20:28] But because you want to support yourself and that’s a big journey for me is still learning that these tools that I, that I do consistently are because I love myself, not because something bad is, you know, going to have to happen that I have to be prepared for or, you know, that I have to keep working on, like, I’m not learning, I’m not breathing because I need to be calm all the time I’m breathing.

[00:20:52] Cause it just feels good. So. Yeah. Yeah, that’s that’s some of the that’s a building. That’s my building blocks for care. And I try to be open to new stuff. Like, I’m starting to like get back into my like, tomboy phase, which is again, we had some strange things in the 90s. But I was an athlete like all the time.

[00:21:14] And I let go of that identity for a long time. And so I’ve been playing a lot of softball and like feeling just like very that like, Big energy of taking up space and hitting things. So I try to be open to like, where a lot of inner child stuff, you know, like we got short attention spans. So I try, I try to be open to like, today I want to do this today.

[00:21:36] I want to do this and leave space in my calendar so that those things can happen because obviously running a business, it’s, it’s a lot. And so I try to have support to be able to let that impulsive part of me kind of ride a little bit.

[00:21:52] Ela Miranda: I love that so much. There are some really interesting points there that I love. First of all, I love that you have such a well thought out answer for this. I’m just like want to name that like I’m really proud of you because like that’s incredible. And also like I think it’s really interesting to o the point that, like, care is not coming from a place of, I don’t know, negativity or anxiety.

[00:22:25] I’ve been talking about this a lot recently because I’ve been talking with people about adaptive systems and how, for me, that Like, I guess when I talk to people about this, often their first response to me saying like, Oh, you need to have a lot of options available to you for your support because you don’t really know like when life is going to start lifing and throw some shit in your way.

[00:22:53] And so I get a lot of people who are like, Oh, like That feels like I really need to like, sit here and think of everything that could ever go wrong, ever. And I’m like, Okay, well, my brain doesn’t need any help doing that. I don’t know about yours. So we’re gonna take this in a different direction.

[00:23:19] Emily Griswold: Oh, it’s so accurate. That is so accurate.

[00:23:24] Ela Miranda: so no, I love that. I love that. Like that framing of being like, okay, you know, like, it’s not that everything is terrible. And so I have to like, sit here and breathe because the day is going to be terrible, but sort of focusing on like how it feels and the things that, you know, help you feel the way that you want to feel And also I love the point of allowing room for impulsivity.

[00:23:52] I feel like that is an accommodation that is one of my favorite parts of adaptive systems. Like, I just feel like when I talk to neurotypical people, they have such a focus on like, Oh, well, like, I want to do like all of the same things all of the time. And. I have ones like that too, right? Like I eat the same thing for breakfast every morning and I love it.

[00:24:22] Emily Griswold: Yep,

[00:24:23] Ela Miranda: But I think this idea that like you can Plan for impulsivity is something that is like not talked about really at all and this idea that like, you know You can give yourself space to do these things that you want is just not talked about often in society. Because a lot of society is not based around what you want,

[00:24:46] Emily Griswold: yep, that part, yep.

[00:24:50] Ela Miranda: but yeah, like I, I love that so much.

[00:24:52] And I love the idea that like, that is supportive to you and to the care and to like you being a full person who enjoys the things that you can, know, gets to enjoy trying new things and allowing yourself space for that. Because I feel like that’s a really important accommodation. This idea that, like, I feel like very often as a child, like, I was shamed for my impulsivity. Right? Like, you’re like, oh,

[00:25:22] Emily Griswold: I I don’t know anything about that at all.

[00:25:26] Ela Miranda: right?

[00:25:26] Emily Griswold: 0 percent relate to being, going to a Catholic elementary school.

[00:25:32] Ela Miranda: oh, oh, that’s even worse.

[00:25:33] Emily Griswold: We could unpack those systems. That’s a whole different podcast episode.

[00:25:40] Ela Miranda: Yeah, but like, I think, like, There are still some times, like, even now as an adult, like, sometimes I, like, look at the ways in which I spend and I go, Oh shit, like, there’s that shame coming back because I made an impulsive purchase, or like, that tends to be the place where it shows up, like, the most often in, [00:26:00] like, a negative way, I guess.

[00:26:02] for me now an adult but it’s definitely interesting to see like as I As I acknowledge my needs and as I do this work of like building my own accommodations and like Building systems that work for me I’m realizing that like So much of these things that I was shamed for are actually strengths when they’re given the correct, like, space and guidelines.

[00:26:28] When I’m not sitting here impulse buying, like, every single package of chips in the store, I can give myself space to just walk around and go wherever I want, you know? So, but I think it comes down to, as always, knowing, knowing yourself, knowing what you need, knowing, you know, when, like, I have to have a list when I go to the grocery store, if I want to achieve my goals of, like, being financially well and confident, right?

[00:27:02] Emily Griswold: Well, you know what? And you’re reminding me too, is that a bar, a big part of this. So my partner is autistic and has ADHD and is non binary. So they just have, and they’re a person of color. So they’re just like zero norms, just like all right. And being with them and I have to give them props for this because they’re Their neurodivergence and the way that they embrace the calamity of, like, existing, it it it wears off on me in a po right?

[00:27:37] Cause you after I mean, we’ve been together for four and a half years now, right? So, like, you’re gonna you’re gonna pick up on each other’s phrases and and whatever. But they They used to say to me when we first started dating, they’re like, do you laugh? Like, and I’d be like, of course I laugh. And they’d be like, meh, I don’t know.

[00:27:59] And it’s so funny to think about because if you meet me, you know, today, people are like, you’re so joyous and, you know, so on and so forth. But they really taught me how to, how to have fun and relax. And I think. It’s because of I was just describing this to a school leader today. I had this conversation today and she asked me the question.

[00:28:20] What do you think it is? We were talking about the like of being neurodivergent and holding other marginalized identities and like why those tend to like coexist so often, right? Like being gender queer or being, you know, All the other mixed places that we can, we can inhabit. And I was like, because the, the way that, that I have seen it, is it’s like, you were built for one planet and dropped off on another.

[00:28:58] Right?

[00:29:00] So like, you have all of these skills and strategies for this planet that you didn’t end up on. And now, you’re here, like, what the hell? There’s all these social norms and like, People, there’s a great meme that I will send to you that’s like neurotypical people, like, pretending to say something but not actually saying it, like, and so it’s, it’s what I love and I think the reason why I spend so much time in relationship with neurodivergent folks is because of that, like, is because, to your point, like, that strength That’s been shamed for so long is actually what we should be looking for to how to guide our culture.

[00:29:44] Like, the, that’s, that is where, that’s where freedom is. And so, you know, when I’m working with, with kids and even when I’m working with school staff who are also neurodivergent, who have, you know, are completely underdiagnosed and so on and so forth. Like, that’s why we enter with the gift. Because it’s like, you gotta see that first.

[00:30:06] Cause then once you open that, it is Pandora’s box. Let me tell you, and I’m sure you know that, right? Like, once you start setting up systems of support, and you start providing yourself accommodations, the shit that comes out is like, What? I can do that?

[00:30:21] Ela Miranda: Right?

[00:30:23] Emily Griswold: Like,

[00:30:24] Ela Miranda: Oh,

[00:30:25] Emily Griswold: Yeah, so that, when you were bringing that to mind, it reminded me of, yeah, my partner telling me. That they don’t think that I laugh and then showing me really like by living their example of their truth. Cause they’ve, they’ve transitioned like in, within our relationship, they hadn’t begun their transition until we were, you know, about halfway through our relationship and even that process.

[00:30:46] And the systems associated with, with, right. Like it’s, it’s pretty. It’s pretty miraculous. So this, I know this is not like a love podcast, but I do, I have to give them props and, and it’s, it’s part of, it’s part of why I spend so much time with nerd divergent people and why I feel so much so comfortable and safe.

[00:31:07] I, yeah, because it’s, it is, it’s the world that I want. That’s, that’s the version I want that planet. Like, if we could relocate and start over,

[00:31:17] Ela Miranda: oh, absolutely.

[00:31:19] Emily Griswold: that instead.

[00:31:21] Ela Miranda: Oh, I love that so much. I know it is not a love podcast, but I think it’s important to note too that like, community. is a big part of any support system, right? Like, and sometimes It takes a while to find that community or it takes a while to Find people who will truly support you being in your truth and like being able to accommodate yourself But I do believe that like it’s absolutely possible and That it is really an important An important part, you have to have other people to turn to for support, whether that’s like professionals like yourself, or a therapist, or just friends who like, get it, you know?

[00:32:09] Emily Griswold: Yes.

[00:32:11] Emily Griswold: Well, that’s what I, I talk, I talk about that with families too, right? Cause like, I don’t know about you, but I desperately needed somebody like me when I was younger. That was, well, of course, my parents were not like me. So that was, that was never going to drive, but I really needed, that’s why part of my framework is mentor support.

[00:32:30] And I think sometimes people are confused by that, right? Cause like when you’re seen as having like, as an expert in a field, like the word mentor feels very informal, but I put it there on purpose. Because it is like, I, I, I kind of want to embrace that like weird aught that’s not your aught vibe, you know, like, like, and, and like you said, that’s the community we need because we need it.

[00:32:59] We need a future oriented community, like we think, especially when we think about mental health concerns in neurodivergent youth and like specifically, you know, just pieces that feel like this will never get better. And also there’s nobody like me. I mean that having a, a mentor in that role is like, there’s, there isn’t anything better, there’s no, no better intervention than that, literally.

[00:33:24] And you can look to any scientific study about it. So that’s another piece of it, but we often don’t develop that until adulthood. So imagine having that as, you know. Again, if I had that as a teenager, I would have been even weirder, which who knows how that would have turned out. But nonetheless,

[00:33:41] Ela Miranda: Probably amazing though.

[00:33:43] Emily Griswold: I could have been into squirrels long ago. Who would have thought?

[00:33:49] Ela Miranda: Yeah Yeah, no, like I love that and I love to the idea of an intervention in a way that is Not connected to like drugs Like but this idea that like you can you can intervene with support you can like intervene in someone’s life with like lessons that they need to learn and just Genuinely, like, I don’t know. I love, I love the idea of like found family vibes like that very much has been very important for me.

[00:34:24] Like definitely throughout my youth, I doubt I would be here without the people who stepped up in those roles. And so it’s definitely like something that is so important and that I think a lot of adults don’t always. So I love that I think we’ve talked about this a little bit, but Do you feel like the work that you do and working with people who are traditionally, well, who are, who are considered untraditional, right?

[00:34:54] Has helped you to center that? Ease and leisure like both in your life and in your business and why or why not?

[00:35:02] Emily Griswold: So I’m so happy this question came. We could, we should just ask this question over and over again so we can just keep reminding ourselves. Yeah. I, I think one of the things I love the most about specifically working with kids on the spectrum and kids with ADHD is like the, the deep desire for enjoyment.

[00:35:25] Like, it’s a hardwired piece of who they are. And so much of our school system is spent trying to like, hammer that out of them, right? Like, fixed interests are bad, or like, they can’t perseverate on this, stop saying this movie quote over and over again. And I’m like, bruh, you know that you have a sweatshirt that you wear at home when you feel sad.

[00:35:47] So don’t even talk to me about perseveration. You don’t, you act like you’re high and mighty when we all know we have our things, ours are just quote unquote, socially acceptable because we’ve deemed them. So when it comes to like, yeah, leisure and pleasure, it’s a constant. And it, and it, the good part about it is that when you navigate going there first, it’s already integrated, right?

[00:36:15] Like rather than trying, which it feels like, again, we’re doing things backwards where like. We’ve kind of realized as a society, like, Oh, maybe we should take a nap every once in a while, or like, Oh, maybe the traditional five day work week, 17 hours a day. Isn’t good for us. Right. So we’re like having the conversation, but we’re doing it backwards.

[00:36:38] So we’re trying to like shove it inside of something that’s already bursting. Rather than saying like, starting with pleasure, starting with desire, starting with ease. And like building around that. And I think that’s, that’s work that neurodivergent people are, are literally hardwired for and I wish we did a better job of, of supporting that.

[00:37:04] Because I think like when I look at someone like, and I always will talk about her Temple Grandin, like Temple Grandin is an obsession of mine. Mostly it’s the cowboy fits that she rocks on a regular basis. But when I, you know, when I look at an example of her, I see somebody who just kept going on what they fucking loved.

[00:37:30] And what they were really good at, and essentially were like, I don’t care. Like, you can tell me that I’m a woman. You can tell me that I’m weird. You can tell me that, you know, I can’t scream and cry. You can tell me whatever I want, but I’m about to sit in this cowshoe and I’m about to figure out how to fix this problem.

[00:37:50] And like, I mean, she’s like the pioneer of that. So that’s like part of my freedom goal is that too. And it’s hard, right? Cause like. I gotta pay bills, and I’m under a I live in a very expensive city, like, life is expensive. So it’s, I’m not gonna stay here and be like, I have it figured out, like, no, am I crying about money all the time?

[00:38:14] Of course I am. Am I, you know, like, this week was wild, like, just so much happening, like, and some, and, but it’s also, and, and something I’m learning, a system that I’m learning to, like, And habit for pleasure and ease is to also be okay with that, right? That, that there, there is. That doesn’t have to be another way that I am unkind to myself.

[00:38:38] That sometimes there are weeks that are busy. Sometimes your morning routine doesn’t happen. Sometimes, you know, TV is the answer. And that’s not a, it’s not, it’s not bad. It’s, it’s just, it is. And the nicer you are to yourself in the process, the better off you’ll be. So that’s kind of how I try to center those things as much as possible.

[00:39:00] But again, I’m not here sitting, I mean, I feel like my friends would be like, Girl, bye, you were just freaking out like, two weeks ago. Again, friends that just wholly accept you for who you are, can’t, can’t recommend enough. Ten out of ten.

[00:39:16] Ela Miranda: Honestly, Oh, I love

[00:39:20] Emily Griswold: of me being like, Why am I doing this? Can’t I, should I just go back to being a teacher? Cause like, and they’re like you’re not gonna hate it, and I know it feels hard right now.

[00:39:33] Ela Miranda: Oh, absolutely I literally had a friend call me yesterday and they were like I heard your voice in my head telling me to sit down And I just like need you to like externalize that for me. So I listened to it, and I was like, good, I love this, absolutely, sit the fuck down, like,

[00:39:52] Emily Griswold: Oh, it’s so good. Even your, your email message. Like I, I used to have something similar, but I just, the way that it’s phrased. So if you don’t, if you have not received a message from you, we’ll get this beautiful, first of all, it has a robot, which I love. Second of all it’s just so the way that you, you state your reasoning and you’re like resourcing for email.

[00:40:17] One, I love that I already know all your, like, so many of your values just by getting a response from an email. And two, like, if I was going to work with you, I would already know, like, what I’m getting myself into. Like, it’s, it’s just such a good, like, it’s like a sales page in an email, email response

[00:40:36] Ela Miranda: right,

[00:40:37] Emily Griswold: way.

[00:40:37] So I’m, I, I want to shout you out for that system because. Yeah, it’s just that anti urgency and that’s where, that’s where rest and leisure are.

[00:40:46] Ela Miranda: yes, absolutely Juno is my favorite team member, like, that is the name of the robot who sends out my automated response telling you that I don’t check my email that often, and, genuinely, like, it’s one of my favorite things Thank And I think, like, this is a value that took me a lot of time to learn.

[00:41:12] Because I grew up very, very avoidant of both conflict and conversation in general. And so, it took me a really long time to get to a point where I felt comfortable communicating with people directly ahead of time. And recognizing that communication is actually a kindness, like not just for me, but also for other people because as you said, like, you already know my values, you already know to not expect a response immediately.

[00:41:47] Emily Griswold: Right.

[00:41:47] Ela Miranda: So you can set your expectations, and it doesn’t lead to this. Like, miscommunication or like, differing expectations because, because we didn’t communicate, right? And that’s not to say that it’s not still scary sometimes, like, saying directly what it is that I need, The whole point of building these systems is that most of it is automated And I don’t have to say the thing like I don’t have to look at that email every time it goes out That’s Juno’s job

[00:42:25] Emily Griswold: Sometimes, yes, sometimes systems are, sometimes support is having a block. sometimes your most supportive measures are the ones that are very hard and like impenetrable.

[00:42:43] Ela Miranda: Yeah, it’s so funny to me, like, how much of my work centers around, like, the therapy work that I have had to do.

[00:42:50] Emily Griswold: my gosh.

[00:42:54] Ela Miranda: Like, I definitely, like, never went into this going, like, oh, yes, I should be a therapist, but like, but these lessons are so applicable to, like, everything that we do, and being able to like, express your needs and, build those accommodations, but also being able to recognize cognitive dissonance, and being able to recognize, right, like, when sometimes the thoughts that I’m having don’t serve me, and I have to sit there and, like, go through a whole process before I recognize that sometimes, because a lot of times these are things that are, like, just…

[00:43:32] so built in. Like sometimes I don’t even notice when I’m being mean to myself because it’s just something that’s like so frequent. And so the more that I am able to recognize when there is that dissonance between the thoughts that I’m thinking and like the ways in which I want to treat myself, the more I’m able to then acknowledge those needs and acknowledge the support that I need in order to meet those needs.

[00:44:00] And so there are a lot of ways in which like, we’re going to be doing therapy together.

[00:44:06] Emily Griswold: Yes. Hell yes. Yes. Well, and you know what? It’s so funny you say that because somebody… Same thing in the same conversation. Somebody asked me today, like, well, what’s, what, why do you call yourself a coach instead of like, you know, what, and I said, I was like, because it’s like being a tennis coach, but for like.

[00:44:27] These soft skills, like it’s, it’s the same thing. And honestly, I am way too sensitive and empathetic to be a therapist. Like I just, I, I can’t do it. And I thought there was points in my life where I was like, maybe I’ll be a school counselor. Nope. I can’t, I can’t take the actual story because it’s just, my humanity is so raw.

[00:44:50] Like I, I mean, I know that’s a boundary, but what I can do is listen and, give you the bumpers, you know, in the bumper lane to be like, okay, let’s bounce off this. Let’s bounce off that. And it, when you were talking, it reminded me of like, this is a vulnerable share, but I appreciate you. So here we go.

[00:45:11] Something that I struggle with in being in this space is that like, I’m not, I don’t have a diagnosis of anything. I don’t really find myself fitting into, I’m, I’m definitely not on the spectrum. I don’t have A-D-H-D, I am weird and sensitive, right? So there’s like these, you know, these, these places. Of course, I’m not, I don’t typically inhabit any box of neurodivergence and or being neurodivergent.

[00:45:35] Sorry. We’ll, I’ll, at some point I’ll talk about the difference in the CE and the nd t, whatever, spelling’s. Not my strong suit, but one of the reasons why, ’cause sometimes I carry guilt of like, why? Why am I serving in this capacity if I’m not formally diagnosed or even even self diagnosed, right? of course the imposter syndrome and The the way that I’ve grappled with that is that I think part of the reason why I was put on also I also do believe I was put on the wrong planet I think I just came from a different one is that like I have to be a bridge So my job is, and I literally will see this sometimes when I do like visioning practices or something like, I’ll see this stone bridge, and I’m always like walking from one side to the other, and that’s what it feels like, like I’m, I’m walking to like the neurodivergent side and and listening and gaining and, and, you know, raising money for squirrels.

[00:46:39] And then I’m like walking back over to the other side. And like, there’s, that’s the, that’s the beauty. I think of what I, what the system that I’ve set up for myself, that I’m still in the process of accepting and loving is like, again, how to fit outside of a norm and to be okay with, with where I am and the gift that I specifically have.

[00:47:00] Cause. You know, it’s hard because you, you want to, you know, you want to connect and you want to relate and there’s a, there’s a, there’s a, what’s the word? I can’t think of the word, the disconnect, you know, when you’re not like part of this community. But I, I think that’s part of my own process and my own system support is like learning that the, the place you inhabit is the place you inhabit and that’s. You’re that’s your, that’s your thing, like owning the place you and have. And it’s funny, right? I talk about it all frigging day long to children, but try and do it to yourself. And you’re like, but I’m the exception.

[00:47:40] Ela Miranda: Oh, absolutely. It’s so much easier to say than it is to do. Fuck.

[00:47:46] Emily Griswold: Incredibly frustrating. Incredibly because like the example that it brings to mind is like, again, I’ll nerd out with the brain. Cause like, I haven’t nerded out enough with the brain yet in this podcast. And y’all people don’t know my kids. I have kids that will count how many times I say brain during sessions because.

[00:48:03] Really? I just think it’s fascinating and I think the more you learn about your brain, especially when you’re neurodivergent, like you can hack your whole life. It’s amazing. But something I think about in this like bridge reference is that like, we know that folks in the autism spectrum often have enlarged amygdalas, which is the fear response center.

[00:48:24] They also have enlarged other insanely creative pieces of their brain. But if that amygdala is given free reign. That can cause a lot of problems in trying to be a part of whatever you want to be a part of to get free, right? So the bridge experience for that is bringing some of those neurotypical strategies for understanding and unpacking things like anxiety or unhelpful thought patterns or like in our practice, I call it the story snake about like, It starts off as this, and then it gets bigger, and then it gets bigger, and then all of a sudden it’s this, like, massive anaconda!

[00:49:03] That is not true! Like, it is, it’s a birthday party! You can go, I promise you! I know you’ve envisioned it, like, a rocket ship landing on the… The Bowling Center, but like, it’s not, we, no. So, I think that’s where another piece of my work is like, bringing our worlds together. Because we do have a lot to learn from each other.

[00:49:27] And not because we’re trying to fix one another, because that’s the garbage that I really can’t stand, right? Is that like, we’re always just, somebody’s wrong and broken, and like, one side or the other is trying to be like, do this more, do this more. And I’m like, no, no, no, let’s actually. Stop and learn from each other so we can both feel better. That’s, I think that’s also some of my, my favorite work too.

[00:49:48] Ela Miranda: Yeah, absolutely. I definitely think like When it comes to my own relationships, the people that I get along with best are the people who are willing to ask [00:50:00] questions and try to understand, right? Like, I, I don’t have a lot of patience for people who are entirely unwilling to learn

[00:50:10] Emily Griswold: Yeah,

[00:50:10] Ela Miranda: because we live in a world where, like, you have access to the internet.

[00:50:16] Right? Like, I think about this all the time because I think, like, to the comments you’ve made earlier about how accepting kids are these days. You know, I think about my siblings who are all younger than me, and I think about, like, how for me, coming to terms with, like, my sexual identity and things like that were just, like, such a difficult process for me.

[00:50:42] And… You know, my siblings now and like I talk with them and their friends and they’re just like, yeah, whatever like I tried it Don’t let it mean anything about just like they’re just totally fine. And like they, They like have learned all of these things. They have access to so much information and like, you know There’s arguments for both the good and the bad of that, as there is for everything But just like I don’t think that there’s any excuse for not being willing to listen to someone who has a different perspective than you because you have access to so many different perspectives that you never would have had access to before.

[00:51:25] And I just think that that’s really important. Like it’s one of what definitely one of my personal values, right? Like one of the reasons why I travel so much, why I like I’ve moved out of the country. Why I like do all of these things is because I want to be able to have those experiences with people who are different than me.

[00:51:45] I want to stay in the same place with the same people all of the time. Not that I don’t love the people that I have met and been around, but just that like, there’s so many things that I don’t know about this world and I want to know them all.

[00:52:00] Emily Griswold: Yep. Yeah. Which is another brilliance of being neurodivergent is there’s like a. Like an unwavering curiosity and justice. Like, let me tell you, I have to be like, I need to check myself because you are really on the right side of history and you are nine. Like, wow. You know, like that it’s pretty amazing.

[00:52:27] And, and of course, what I think about is. Like, how do you harness that? Because what we don’t, we also don’t discuss enough is how adolescents is like, which I think is what drew me to work with this population. Cause a lot of my teaching experiences with younger kids, mostly just cause they’re so freaking cute.

[00:52:44] And I just, I really, I think children are the most adorable thing in the entire world, but the reason why I drew myself to adolescence is because like. You are defining your identity and you are separating yourself from your caregiver or whatever circumstances you have of the people who raised you and it really is, it’s not to say that you can never go back and, and, you know, collect the pieces of yourself you left behind because like I’m living proof of that and it sounds like you are too, but it would just be so much easier to take everything with us.

[00:53:18] And that’s, I think that’s why adolescence is such a critical age, that we tend to dismiss as like, hormonal, or like, overly emotional, or, you know, like, their mood swings and all, and we, and we have so many, even as a person who works with teens, it’s easy for me to fall into that, like, You know, they just don’t clean up their room or we have to walk both ways uphill to school or whatever, you know Like those like adult mannerisms are but I think that’s something really That we have to remember as a society is that like how we are treating and what we are shaping for adolescence is, is the defining factor of the next generation.

[00:53:59] And when we look at, you know, the laws that are being passed and the hate that is being directed at children being their expression of themselves. I just, I don’t think the folks that are doing this realize like what the impact of that is. And they will highly regret it, I can tell you that much.

[00:54:20] Because when, and I say when on purpose because those are the kids that I want to be working with. When they get older, they will come for you. And they will remember what has been done. And they are… smarter and more innovative and more creative and more like justice seeking. And I love this generation for that.

[00:54:45] I hate what’s being done to them, but you cannot attempt to stifle. Something this revolutionary and like when you talk about your younger siblings, like, I really, I do feel like this generation, the, the generation of youth that’s coming up now is like they’re, they’re revolutionary and

[00:55:04] Ela Miranda: Oh, absolutely.

[00:55:05] Emily Griswold: don’t accept.

[00:55:06] No.

[00:55:08] Ela Miranda: Like, I have cousins who are, like, on their what’s it called, like, student council or whatever. So, you know, they’re, like, in a position of leadership at their school, right? And they’re, like, fucking organizing walkouts when anti trans bills are being proposed in the state that they live in.

[00:55:26] And, you know, they’re, like, organizing baby showers, and they’re, like, doing all of this shit. And, like… I’m just, I’m so, so proud of them. I had no idea what was going on in the world when I was a teenager. Like, and to be fair to myself, right, there were like external circumstances. I was just trying to survive, right?

[00:55:51] But like,

[00:55:51] Emily Griswold: Yep. Feel you. Feel you. Yes.

[00:55:55] Ela Miranda: But it’s also like, you know, they’re, they’re definitely in some of the same boat, you know what I mean? Like, look at the world that we live in and like, and they’re still out here taking action and they’re still out here, you know. Doing these things and like learning about things and speaking out. And it’s just, it’s so incredible for me to see.

[00:56:19] It’s absolutely like very inspiring. Cause you know, I think about it, you know, like you said, like you got to check yourself, right? If I don’t like sit here and do this scary thing, my 15 year old cousin is going to judge me.

[00:56:33] Emily Griswold: literally, and they will they will literally be like, I’m sorry, did you post about and you’re like, damn, okay, sure. I’m about to, I guess, like, because if you don’t that and I’m like, Alright, alright, I get it. I get it. Thank you. I will take care of it. But I think that’s like so important when you’re, which is why doing like healing work and look at looking and looking backwards is like, So important for ourselves personally.

[00:57:03] And like, I think that’s a huge part. It sounds like when you’re talking about like, that your systems work is somewhat therapy work, because it is like, we, we got to look back at some of this stuff and be like, what did I leave behind? And like, what, what do I need to leave behind? Like, cause there are some things that I’m like, I’m, I used to have two popped collars with the dark underneath and the light on top.

[00:57:28] I would love to leave that behind. There’s unfortunately photo evidence, but I would still like to put it in the past. But, like, I don’t want to leave behind the fact that I was, like, involved in I was a band geek, and I played volleyball, and I loved U. S. history and studying World War II, and, like, I was a multifaceted kid.

[00:57:49] I was never the best at any of those things, and I used to be mean to myself for that, but now when I look back, I’m like, that’s so fucking cool. You had all this stuff that you were into, you know? So that’s another piece that I hope that, that folks will be willing to explore too, is like their own versions of their inner teenager and the teenagers that are standing right next to them.

[00:58:12] Like, what could I learn from my own? And what could I learn from, from this person? Cause if you want hope, look that direction,

[00:58:21] Ela Miranda: Oh, absolutely. I love that so much. And, and I think too, I talk often about the importance of review when it comes to systems because you can’t, you can’t know what to change if you don’t know what’s happened. So yeah, like, I think of, I can’t think of his name.

[00:58:43] I will, I will drop it in the notes somewhere when I find it. But he’s a very, like, famous author. And there’s a quote where he talks about, He was doing some project over the summer and Somebody asked him, Oh, what is it that you like to do?

[00:58:59] And he, like, listed, a whole bunch of different things And they were like, oh, that’s really cool. And he’s like, oh, no, no, like, I’m not good at any of them And… The person that he was talking to was like, No, but, like, You don’t have to be good at all of these things, right? Like, what matters is that you are learning and that you have the opportunity to like, have all of these different experiences I think is what the actual, like, quote was saying, was talking about how life is really fucking short.

[00:59:29] And To have experiences is really like what we are here for. And so if you deny yourself the opportunity for that, because you’re trying to only be good at things, it’s such a waste.

[00:59:46] Emily Griswold: to speak to your point about like accommodations, right? Like I think of accommodations and creating systems of support as a way to be able to do that. Like, cause I think, you know, we talk about this often that like our usual inner teenagers are very like anti like constriction, anti schedule, anti, you know, like structure.

[01:00:12] And one of the things that I think can change that mindset around, you know, Learning your own accommodations and setting up systems of support is that like, they actually allow you, they free you up to be able to do the stuff that you, you can’t, you wouldn’t have been had access to. Right. So like, you know, to the part about the fear response and like the amygdala, like if your amygdala is in a place where it feels At least somewhat safe and supported.

[01:00:43] Then your creativity turns on, then your problem solving skills turn on, then your, you know, risk taking factor is right. Versus when we’re living in like unstructured chaos. And this is where I bring my neurotypical side to neurodivergent folks is like, I know that it feels like trying to implement something like this is me Trying to like, I don’t even know, I can’t even think of a good enough analogy for how upset people get when I, especially teenagers, but when I tell them, and when I show them and they get evidence, right, of, oh, this is actually expansion, like this, this accommodation provides me with X, Y, and Z that is like, I mean, there’s there’s no better reasoning for it.

[01:01:43] That’s why we do it.

[01:01:45] Ela Miranda: yes, absolutely. And I, I love the point too. Like mean, I I’m sure, you know, we all have inner teenagers as well, but, I talk about this. Often with people literally like just this Wednesday in Systems Recess, I had like a whole realization for myself that like, it feels like so much work to set up a system because I don’t think people Take into account how many decisions you have to make ahead of time in order to set up a system.

[01:02:20] And that’s a lot of work, like, especially for a neurodivergent person where, like, you have executing functioning, like, disabilities and making a decision in general is just, like, not always your strongest suit, right? To, like, be asked to sit there and, do nothing but make decisions feels like the worst thing in the entire world. when I have that set up, when I take the time to do that, right, when, when we give ourselves access to those accommodations and to that space, suddenly everything else that I’m doing becomes so much easier.

[01:02:57] Emily Griswold: Whoa! Yes!

[01:02:58] Ela Miranda: I have to like, I have to sit there and I have to remind myself of that every single time I go to build a system.

[01:03:05] And it’s why we have systems recess every week, because I have to constantly come back to this process, because it’s not easy for me. And I think there’s a lot of people who can relate that, you know, the process of like sitting down and reviewing my own actions, even when I’m trying to do it in a self compassionate way doesn’t always feel good.

[01:03:32] Emily Griswold: No!

[01:03:34] Ela Miranda: like, I have to have, I have to have a community around me. I have to have like this built in schedule and this built in support for these things. And like, I have to recognize and like continue to remind myself that coming back to these things is the most important work that I can be doing because it then gives me access to all of these other things that I want to do.

[01:03:59] All of the things that I’m passionate about, passionate about, and the things that I want to do become easier when I support myself. And… I think you used a phrase earlier, like, you have to, like, hack your brain, right? You’ve got to, like, trick yourself into doing these things. And I actually, like, just read a study the other day where a doctor used that exact language.

[01:04:21] And I was like, oh my god! Yes! Like, I feel so seen right now! bEcause absolutely, like, that’s how it feels most of the time. I have to, like, trick myself into doing the things that are good for me.

[01:04:36] Emily Griswold: Yes! Yes! Yes!

[01:04:39] Oh my gosh. I, well, and I like, you know, once a teacher, always a teacher. So I feel like I have to like, I have to give a strategy while we’re on this because I, I wouldn’t be able to. So every week. I, I have a newsletter where I put out teenage brain hacks in under five minutes. So there are these short videos where, because parents and caregivers or neurodivergent teenagers have no time.

[01:05:06] None of us have time, but like if there was a group of people that had the least amount of time, it would probably be those people. And so essentially what I tried to do was take, you know, skills and strategies that are quick, easy and manageable and give them the space to listen in whatever capacity they can and to try something out.

[01:05:25] And so I always end the newsletter that five minute with a what. So like, here’s what to do. So can I give you a what as you’re describing this? So what it made me think of, right, is many of my students think that there are certain things that are pointless, right?

[01:05:42] So like, especially on the spectrum, it’s like, I will never use this. I am not doing it. Thank you. And goodbye. So I always have to come up with like the reason and so on and so forth. But one of my favorite brain hacks is called bridging. Have you heard of this before?

[01:05:56] Ela Miranda: It sounds familiar, but please explain.

[01:05:58] Emily Griswold: I said bridging and I was like, Oh yeah, and I talked about being a bridge. Look how it comes full circle. So bridging is the idea of going from a highly preferred task to a non preferred task over multiple steps. So, you know, for instance, like a go to is video games, right? So if you have a kid that’s like very into video games, it’s going to be really hard to be like, Okay, and now do your homework.

[01:06:21] Which feels like so many of us as adults. especially as entrepreneurs, where we’re like, you know, I am creating a course around like, multi hyphenate passion seekers, like, our brain is like, Yay! And like, then we look and we literally do not have a clean dish, like, to eat off of. And we’re like, well, paper towels then!

[01:06:45] So like, how do you go from that to that? Which is also necessary and like, you know, going to help you have a positive, happy, productive life. So bridging is the idea that you kind of like, slowly back yourself into the non preferred task. By getting to less and less. So rather than, you know, go straight from a video game to a homework assignment, we do something like in my coaching practice where I would say, Hey, like if, if I come in and they’re on video games, which is like a setup for a disaster, I’ll say something to the impact of, Hey, I found this really cool game on my phone in five minutes.

[01:07:23] Can we play it together? Sure. It’s still a preferred task. Because it’s something digital. We’re going to do it together. So I have a little bit more like leeway. There’s like a little bit more space between you and the task. And, you know, it’s, it’s somewhat like novel, like it’s not necessarily something you’ve done before.

[01:07:43] It’s like, you know, a little bit, it has a little bit of spice to it. So that’s the first bridge. So the five minutes up, we do this little game. Then I say, hey, in five minutes, we’re going to try this piece of whatever word, social skill word, social story word, how’s that sound? Okay, we’re going to work on this.

[01:08:02] In five minutes, we’re going to work on the social story for 15. And then we’re going to come back to this. And essentially what it is, is like you’re using those bridges to hack your brain to start because eventually what will start happening is that. It’s just like any, you know, path you walk consistently, your brain will get used to and trust that you’re going to come back to the thing you really love.

[01:08:24] Right. It’s not about getting rid of the video game. It’s about learning how to come off, do things, come back on, you know, like the, the it’s a system, it’s a support. So bridging is like, I love that. And so maybe for your, your folks that are more inclined to say no and get overwhelmed by building a system.

[01:08:45] Sometimes we can bridge into it so that it doesn’t feel so yucky. And that eventually our brain recognizes that, Oh yeah, this is just part of something we do. We go from non preferred to like, okay, to, I really don’t like it back to, it’s a little bit good to, Oh my God. Yay. Dopamine, like my favorite thing in the world and your brain will start to trust you, which is what we really want ultimately is to know.

[01:09:06] Like. I got your back, you know, I’m here with you. I know what you like to do. I’m not going to deny that of you for the rest of your life. So yeah, bridging would be my what for everyone.

[01:09:16] Ela Miranda: love that. And it’s so funny that you say that because I literally, like, just this morning made, like, a whole TikTok about this. I realized, so I’ve been using, like, the 5 Calls app to, like, make calls to my representatives, asking them to call for a ceasefire, right? And I’ve been trying to do it every day, but I haven’t been like very consistent for the past few weeks, like about when I do it. And this week I’ve tried really hard to do it before I get out of bed. And I was talking about the idea that like there’s like a productivity theory called. Swallow the Frog, right, where you, like, wake up and you, like, just do the absolute hardest, worst thing on your to do list first, and then you get it out of the way.

[01:10:02] And I’ve always hated this theory because it is the worst.

[01:10:07] Emily Griswold: Yeah.

[01:10:09] Ela Miranda: Like, this idea that, like, I should immediately go into something that I hate just feels so wrong to me. And also, like, isn’t good for my brain. Like, literally, I have to do the dopamine first, and then I can do the hard thing. And this is something that, like, I’ve learned about myself, but I was laughing at myself because I realized that, like, because I hate phone calls.

[01:10:32] So much that, like, I, it’s not the first thing that I do, right? I wake up and I, like, read my comics and I play, like, the games that have, like, daily challenges or whatever, and then I do the phone calls and then I get up, but… Because I hate phone calls so much, it like, brings my anxiety up to a point where like, I was like, I literally feel like I’ve had a cup of coffee already.

[01:11:00] Like, I am ready to take on the day. Like, I know that A, this probably means that coffee isn’t very good for me

[01:11:10] Emily Griswold: Yeah. Amen. Right. True story.

[01:11:14] Ela Miranda: Like I recognize that like these are things that are like not necessarily the best way to get my body like moving and like doing things, but I also know that it works

[01:11:24] Emily Griswold: Yep. Yep.

[01:11:26] Ela Miranda: and so I was like, you know, like I can see where the point of like doing the hard and scary thing could absolutely like encourage you to do the rest of the things so maybe I can, There is some credence to this idea, although I will not be only swallowing frog but I love that. Like, I love that idea of coming back to things. Because I think to your point that like, you get to a point where your brain can trust you to come back to the thing.

[01:11:58] I think that’s like one of the biggest things. That I struggle with transitions are really difficult for me because I hyper focus on things. And, so, like, I do have, like, tricks, and I try to, like, you know, maintain some form of a schedule because it is helpful for me in, like, getting through those transitions and things.

[01:12:26] But I really like that idea of, like, trusting yourself to come back to the thing that you care about. I started playing Stardew Valley recently, because it’s on Apple Arcade, and it is such a dangerous game because it never ends. There is no real good stopping point. So I’m there all day long.

[01:12:49] Emily Griswold: They knew. They knew who they were. They know their target audience. They

[01:12:53] Ela Miranda: Oh, absolutely. When I first started playing, I literally, like, spent the whole day playing it, and then I was like, okay, like, I like the game, but this is, like, not really helping me get to where I want to be, so I’ve, like, set myself this rule now where, like, I can only play it once I’m done with my work, but I do get to come back to it, right?

[01:13:16] Like, I don’t, I don’t get to open it first thing in the morning because I know I will not close it. But once I’m done with my work, it doesn’t matter. I can spend all night doing that if I want

[01:13:24] Emily Griswold: That’s right. Exactly. And well, and so many times, especially when I work with kids with ADHD and I and my friends that have ADHD too, there’s this sense of like, I don’t have enough time. And also, like, time does not exist. Like, it’s like both at the same time, right? Part of getting part of building a trusting relationship with your brain is is Letting it know that like, one, your attention will come back, right?

[01:13:54] Cause that’s like always a big concern of like, I’m never going to get my attention back. If I take a break, it will never come back. And I’m like, speaking of story snakes. So part of like, yeah, the trusting piece of your brain is learning that like you will come back and you do have that capability and let me show you evidence so that when you get into this mindset of like, if I take a break and go to the bathroom, I will never be able to regain my focus is not true.

[01:14:21] And here I will show you that. Right. So it’s funny when you said that, cause yeah, that, happens all the time. It’s like, Where has time gone? And also I don’t have any time to do anything. And I’m like, let me be the guide to the middle ground.

[01:14:34] Ela Miranda: Right. Oh, man. I feel like I’ve talked about this quite a bit before but It was A real incredible shock for me to realize that balance can be me hyper focusing on a thing and then me hyper focusing on rest. Just like real, real mind blowing for me because like that was absolutely like not something that I was allowed as a child. And… To, like, be able to accommodate myself in that and recognize that, like, you know, it’s okay if I want to, like, only focus on these things. It’s okay if I know I will do better at the thing if I just, like, knock it out in two or three days.

[01:15:21] Emily Griswold: Yep.

[01:15:23] Ela Miranda: And then I have to take two or three days to rest in order to achieve that balance. Like, Because I think it was like, it’s just the word that was this idea of some kind of like a middle ground or a balance was so hard for me. Because it was always taught in the way that like, just seemed really difficult for me to like, be able to make those transitions and do those things.

[01:15:47] Especially when, A lot of what I was being asked to focus on as a child was something that I did not care about. So it’s like, if I found the focus for this, I must take it

[01:16:01] Emily Griswold: That’s right. Yep. It’s like, I found like the special berry inside of a pile of garbage and I will consume until I’m sick,

[01:16:13] Ela Miranda: Oh, absolutely.

[01:16:18] Emily Griswold: Oh, man. This has been great.

[01:16:21] Ela Miranda: absolutely. So, so cathartic. To come back to these things.

[01:16:27] Emily Griswold: Right? So that’s why I’m highly considering offering this to adults because I’m like, you know, we could all go back and reclaim some stuff. So we’ll see. To be determined. You’re hearing it here first, but who knows what’s going to happen?

[01:16:40] Ela Miranda: well, I can promise you that I’m probably going to be the first one to sign up when, if, that is a thing that happens.

[01:16:48] Emily Griswold: Good to know. I already have a supporter. Great. Fantastic.

[01:16:54] Ela Miranda: Yeah, but I do think that like, you know, this process of building accommodations and coming to recognize, you know, where your support can be and how to give that to yourself is such an important thing for everyone. So I hope that people listening were able to learn things from you today.

[01:17:12] I know I certainly have. And if people want to connect with you, they want to learn more about your work, how, where can people find you?

[01:17:21] Emily Griswold: they’ve just searched the dredges of the internet. No, I’m just kidding. So they can find me right now. They can find me at eleven 11 wellness. com. So it’s the word eleven then the number 11 wellness. com. But a lot of the content that I’m posting is mostly on LinkedIn. Cause that’s where a lot of families of the kids that I work with are usually on that space. So you can just find me by my name, Emily Griswold but the best place to find all the cool stuff is in my newsletter. So if you go to LinkedIn, or if you go to my website, there’s a signup form there. And you can every Thursday get a teenage brain hack, which you can either use for yourself or use for your teenager.

[01:17:58] But that’s where people can find me.

[01:18:00] Ela Miranda: Awesome. Oh, I love that. I hope you get so many signups and everybody comes out of the woodworks to come find you because I think your work is absolutely incredible and so necessary. So thank you so much for being here, for sharing all of your insight with us, and thank you for the work that you do.

[01:18:19] Emily Griswold: of course. And thank you for the work that you do because. You’re just continuing the good stuff, and I’m so grateful that people get to learn systems from you in a way that is, like, in service of their liberation. So, we’re on the same team. This was really fun. I appreciate you. I’m so excited to see, I can’t wait to hear all the other people too.

[01:18:41] Ela Miranda: I know it’s gonna be it’s gonna be good. So all right. Well, thank you so much. Until the next episode, may you find ease and joy in the life that you’re living, rain or shine.

[00:00:00] Ela Miranda: All right. welcome. We have Chelsea Rife, podcast coach extraordinaire here with us today. Welcome.

[00:00:08] Chelsea Riffe: Thank you so much for having me. Definitely not showing off my podcast extraordinaire with how long it took me to jump on and my tech issues, but that’s the lifestyle I live of being a digital nomad.

[00:00:19] So thanks for bearing with me and I’m, I’m very happy to be on.

[00:00:23] Ela Miranda: Of course, yeah, I have also been traveling for the past few months and it’s always an adventure, there’s always something, so.

[00:00:31] Chelsea Riffe: Always, like, you’re gonna hear some dogs in the back tonight, they decide to bark at the moon every single night, I don’t know why.

[00:00:38] You might hear a chicken or a rooster, like, you’re gonna hear some characters today.

[00:00:43] Ela Miranda: Oh yeah, I am, I’m currently at my parents and my mom hosts a school, so there are children running around and I’m like as far away as possible, but you know, they’re, they’re loud, so.

[00:00:55] Chelsea Riffe: Yeah, we’re gonna have a lot of characters, everyone, so it’s gonna be a play in your ears today.

[00:01:01] Ela Miranda: For sure. All right. Well, to start off, why don’t you tell us a little bit about yourself, what you do, and how you got started traveling?

[00:01:13] Chelsea Riffe: Yeah, so like you said, I’m a podcast coach. I really focus on content strategy, and I also am a full time digital nomad, so I travel constantly. This year, I think I’ve been to like, Ten countries and maybe 16 or 17 cities.

[00:01:28] It was never meant to be at this pace. And for some reason I Got myself into this cycle and I feel like I can’t break it and that is something that I’m I’m trying to be like Do I need to travel every single three to six weeks? So that is just part of my lifestyle right now and I’m in Albania So that’s just a little bit of context about me and I also run a podcast called in my non expert opinion I’ve been doing that since 2017 And I started that actually after a breakup really for creative, like self expression.

[00:01:57] And then I did it for a while, really like three or four years without making a dime or it wasn’t anything except a creative outlet. And then eventually when the pandemic hit, I started my own business. I was in Australia and I pivoted that business to eventually turn into podcast coaching. So now that’s what I’ve been doing really.

[00:02:13] Full time for the last like year and a half, maybe two years. And then what was the last part of the question? How did I get into traveling ? So I would say I caught the travel bug in 2012 when I studied abroad in Valencia, Spain. And then I started working for a corporate American company like most of us do after college.

[00:02:32] I was working an influencer on content marketing. I was moving up actually very quickly in the company. I was a manager when I was 25 years old. I was winning president’s club for hitting my sales quotas. I was taking my parents to Maui when I was like 26 because of the awards I was winning. And it felt really good at the time, right?

[00:02:50] You’re like, Oh, this is it. Like, this was what they were talking about. After college, you move up the ladder and you get all these awards and dah, dah, dah. But the glaring reality was the PTO days, the fact that I had to work when I was sick, so I would just actually work from home and if I wanted to actually take a sick day I had to take PTO, the fact that you don’t actually clock in and out at nine and five, you usually get in a little earlier and stay a little later.

[00:03:16] You don’t really take your hour lunch break because you feel, you know, guilt and shame, and you want to look like a productive person. And so while I was moving up, I just felt very disconnected from the reality of like, this is the rest of your life. You don’t get a winter break or a school summer break and get three months off.

[00:03:32] Like you get your 12 days of PTO, sprinkle in a few bank holidays, and that’s about it. And so when I took my PTO, I would always go to Europe or some international type of, you know, vacation. And it was always so rushed. I remember one trip, we did three cities in Europe in nine days, and it was psychotic.

[00:03:51] We, like, slept half the time because we were so tired. And that really started to weigh on me. Like, this is going to be your life. You’re gonna have to stack your vacation days and sprint through these cities. Or only get to pick one city a year, which just seemed asinine to me. So eventually I was like, you need to figure out a way to get out of this job and do something else.

[00:04:11] So eventually like 2017, 2018, it started brewing. Maybe I need to do something else and prioritize travel. And so I started hardcore looking at visas abroad and international companies I could work for. Ended up in Australia. I was there for a year and the first six months I had no intention of actually really starting a business.

[00:04:31] I was like, let me just explore and see what I want to do. And then as the months went on and I realized how much free time I had, because I wasn’t working a full nine to five, I started taking it a bit more seriously. Like the seed really started blossoming and then the pandemic hit and I was in Australia, so I had absolutely nothing to do. But focus on my business. And then while I was doing that and really focusing on my business, that reality hit too of, well, you actually could be a digital nomad. So not only can you create your own business, you can actually create your lifestyle and travel while you are building this business. So then that started to come to fruition in like 2020 after the lockdown, obviously.

[00:05:10] And then, yeah, the last two years has been pretty full on with travel with this year being the craziest.

[00:05:16] Ela Miranda: as you’ve, traveled and as you’ve, like, started to see all of these different like jobs and different lifestyles and things. How have you really found your motivation to keep working? Like, how do you balance, I guess, both doing the work and seeing these places, especially as you’re moving so frequently?

[00:05:38] Chelsea Riffe: Yeah, that is a great question. I would say the first thing I realized was I cannot work a normal five day, 40 hour work week. So I started to back out my schedule to take Fridays off.

[00:05:49] And I was honestly modeling that after my study abroad program that I did when I was 21. I was like, I remember we would have classes on Thursdays up until noon, and they intentionally did that. So if you wanted to leave on a trip, you could have all of Thursday night plus a three day weekend and still get back in time for your Monday morning classes.

[00:06:06] So I was like, how can I make my schedule look like that? And that was my first iteration of having that work life balance, which to this day, I still take Fridays off. I don’t think I’ve done a client call. Or really anything big on Fridays. That’s like my catch up slash explore day. And then the second thing is that I’m actually ahead of a lot of my clients in terms of time zones.

[00:06:27] So most of my clients are in the U S. Funny enough, both of my one on one clients right now are in Europe, which I’m not used to that we’re all in the same time zone. So that is usually the case though, is I’m six to nine hours ahead. So even if I woke up at 9 a. m. and started blasting off emails, it’s 3 a. m.

[00:06:43] for them. It doesn’t even matter. They’re not going to see it. So I use my mornings to go explore. That is when I go do the activities, go to the beach, write, go to a yoga class, whatever I want to do. Even go to lunch, right? I really don’t have to be online until like 1 or 2 p. m. And that is very intentional.

[00:07:00] I purposely choose a lot of places where I’ll be quote unquote ahead of my clients. And then the last thing I would say is, There are times where I have no balance. Like, there have been times where I’ve traveled with groups, and an example is a company called Remote Year, and it’s a bunch of remote workers traveling together.

[00:07:18] It’s basically like study abroad for adults. Those trips, I remember being in Peru and telling this person, I feel like I haven’t worked at all. I feel like I literally have not worked a full, committed, deep work workday in like, 25 days, I felt so unproductive and it was because I was prioritizing travel and experiences way over working.

[00:07:38] And that was something that fortunately nothing happened, but I think there could have been consequences where, you know, a client could have been like, Hey, I’m, you know, we’re a little behind on this timeline or you’re not as responsive. And. I, I became cognizant of that before they did. And, you know, I was able to course correct myself, but I have to be very alert and attentive to that happening.

[00:07:59] Because it is something that, like you said, it’s, it’s part of my lifestyle and I have to plan ahead for it. I don’t just like show up in these countries and be like, woo, hopefully it works. I, I’m very intentional about how my calendar looks every time I move around.

[00:08:14] Ela Miranda: Yeah, that is definitely I think of an aspect of decision making that when it comes to travel that People don’t always necessarily realize Especially time zones. I feel like switching those, like, not only is it hard on your body, but like, just the constant switch, like, and being cognizant and aware of that is definitely super important. You have talked a lot recently on your own podcast and others as well about the challenges and some of the decision fatigue and all of those things that come with traveling.

[00:08:48] So what are some of the steps that you have taken to make both work and your nomadic lifestyle easier?

[00:08:56] Chelsea Riffe: I would say that the travel time zone thing is a huge one and actually having my Calendly reflect my ideal hours and having someone help me keep those guardrails in place. So what you were just talking about, not only is it challenging, but some places don’t do like daylight savings or the daylight savings days are weird or like the holidays.

[00:09:16] For us aren’t the same for them like three Kings Day in Spain is technically their Christmas And so they take off more of like the first week of January I didn’t know that stuff until I started traveling and people would be like that’s our holiday. I’m like, oh my god Yeah, I forgot it’s July 4th. Of course, no one’s working and I’m here in whatever Spain obviously no one’s celebrating so I again had to look ahead at my calendar and be like You can’t just go into these countries blinded, you need to put their holidays, you need to put your holidays, you need to understand if they do daylight savings, also just in general, like, when does it get dark?

[00:09:52] Right? I’m not trying to work at night for five hours and in pitch black. So that’s something I try to look ahead to is what are the hours, you know, is it normal to be a digital nomad there because some countries aren’t that open to digital nomads and they’ll have cafes that say like, no wifi, no laptops, you know, shut down, come grab a coffee and connect.

[00:10:13] And you’re like, Oh, I brought my laptop because I was going to work here. So this is awkward. And I need to look that stuff up too. I’d say the other thing is really prioritizing self care and my health. I got really, really sick last year when I was traveling. back to back to the point where doctors were like, you should really get your tonsils out.

[00:10:30] I got like flaming tonsillitis twice in a row. So I did a round of antibiotics and I swear, like five days later, it came right back. And then I was sick again for another few weeks. And then I, it was about to come back. And I feel like, I don’t know what happened if I just shut it down or my body is like, we can’t do a third round, but.

[00:10:47] That was very eye opening because I was pushing myself to the max. I had no balance. I was trying to squeeze everything in work experiences, socializing, dating. Like I really thought I could do it all. And my body was like, you actually can’t. So then I got really sick and that taught me. You cannot squeeze every experience into every day.

[00:11:08] You do have to say no to people. You do have to take care of your health. I ended up hiring a personal trainer in a lot of the countries I went to. By the way, when you travel in cheap countries, these things are very cheap, right? So, when I say I hired a personal trainer, it’s not like New York City where they’re 120 an hour.

[00:11:25] In Argentina… It’s like 14 an hour to hire a trainer. So that really helped me focus because not only did I want to show up and make all my appointments because I paid for them. I didn’t want to be hung over personal training. So I stopped drinking a lot too. And then when you are training three times a week, you also want to eat a bit healthier.

[00:11:43] So I think just that action alone really started to show me that my health is important. And I’m happy to report knock on wood this whole entire year I haven’t been sick. I haven’t been on antibiotics. I haven’t had to be like, Completely out of commission. And I feel like that’s because I started taking my health 10 times more seriously than in the past.

[00:12:02] I would say the last thing is community. It does get really lonely. It does get really isolating. It gets really challenging. And I feel like if I was just doing this by myself and never connecting with people, I would be in a very bad mental space and probably not be able to keep going. So whether that’s online communities, like we’re in one called pretty decent, and I’m always trying to join when I can, based on the hours, communities like that are really important to me as well as physical communities.

[00:12:29] So if I’m in the area and there’s like a wellness group or a group chat where everyone meets and, you know, hangs out on Sundays at the cafe, I really try to integrate myself in those groups because, like I said, it can get really isolating and I think we’re social creatures so we need to, if you’re a digital nomad, you need to like build that into your lifestyle.

[00:12:47] Ela Miranda: Absolutely. Connection is so important. Speaking of connections, I have noticed for myself that there are often a lot of people who do not understand this lifestyle and have a lot of questions about why you would choose to, like, constantly have everything in your life be changing. So, do you, have any strategies, right? Is there like, fallback answers that you have? How do you deal with, like, having really important people in your life, right, not understand this?

[00:13:22] Chelsea Riffe: I think it comes down to values. So, you know, a lot of people that don’t understand it, they just simply don’t have the same values. They probably value different things.

[00:13:30] Maybe it’s material items, maybe it’s comfort and stability, and maybe it’s, you know, being rooted in a place and grounded. And for me, I value those things, but not as highly as I value other things like exploration and knowledge and education and culture. And so this is something that really only in the last six months, I realized too, that everything I do, I try to align in my values and it’s easy to see if I’m living them if I just look at my schedule.

[00:13:59] So if I value curiosity, And every day I’m going to a new cafe or taking a different walk on, you know, with the way down to the beach or meeting new people in a WhatsApp group that is fueling my curiosity value. So a lot of people won’t understand because. They also think you’re running away from something and it’s really hard to grasp that you might just want to be exploring the world because you actually can.

[00:14:23] And I always just think in my head, this is not like a verbal defense that I say out loud, but my internal thought process is like, if we have the capacity and capability to see the world with all these inventions like planes and trains and all these new things coming out like bullet trains and I don’t even know, I’m hearing all these new lines coming out, right?

[00:14:44] It’s like, why wouldn’t we take advantage of it and see as much of the world as we can and get to know different cultures? I think that’s something too that people might not put a lot of emphasis on, like they think you’re just taking vacation all the time. And it’s like, no, I actually want to go immerse myself in that culture and get to understand why do Spanish people take naps in the middle of the day and call it siesta time?

[00:15:06] Why do Australians actually value their, their lives over their work and stop working at four and go surf? Like, that’s a very big thing in Australia. Why do, you know, what is this culture does this and this culture does that? To me, it’s like, I feel like we have this really cool, opportunity to be like our own Anthony Bourdain and go like travel the world and eat different food and speak to different people.

[00:15:31] And so for me, It’s almost the same question of, it’s, if you almost flipped, flipped it back to that person, you could ask them, I can’t believe you buy a house. I can’t believe you buy a car. Tell me why you decided to have three kids at the age of 27. And their defense would be like, Oh, because I want to, I want a family, I want the car, I want the kids.

[00:15:53] And so that’s kind of what I think too, is like, exactly. I want to travel. I want to meet new people. I want to experience different cultures and different foods. So it’s just a values thing and yeah, some people won’t get it when I moved to Australia. I had two different friends moms asked me if I was going there to quote unquote find a husband and one of my friend’s moms literally said that she thought I was lying and that I had like a secret lover in Australia and I was like, you would know if I had a secret lover, I would be posting about him. I would be showing off my Australian boyfriend. I would be like, Hey, I’m going to go meet my Aussie man.

[00:16:28] And that just was that actually to me showed a bigger picture. Like I’ve had time to marinate on this too is yeah. Just what Americans value is the traditional milestones of marriage and home ownership and car ownership. And that’s something I’ve really detached from. And so I know when people are saying stuff like that, it’s just a projection.

[00:16:47] And they’re worried, right? How are you going to find a husband if you’re traveling all the time? How are you going to build credit and buy a home? And to me, it’s just, I can shrug it off now and be like, those aren’t high values to me. So it doesn’t really matter. And I’m going to keep doing what I want, how I want, because it aligns with. What I want to do.

[00:17:05] Ela Miranda: It’s so interesting to me to see like the things that people worry about as you have those conversations. I’ve definitely been repeating to myself often that, if people did not care about me, they would not be asking questions and trying to understand and framing it from that perspective has been really helpful. Both for me to be compassionate in my answers and to be like understanding. In general, one of my values of connection very much centers on believing that people are, at their core, good and, like, willing to connect with you. And so just remembering that sometimes the fears and the anxieties and the things that like come up for everyone are not aligned with the values and the ways that I want to live my life and like remembering that in order to reflect how I actually want to be responding in my answers has been, something I’m constantly working on, but.

[00:18:09] Chelsea Riffe: Oh, it is a work in progress. And I do have a quick story about that, that. When I was trying to quit my job, I was just looking at an easy transition. So I was looking at jobs in London that I could just transfer offices and it was going really well. And I was starting to interview and get into final rounds.

[00:18:24] And then I was taking it very seriously and like presenting to my current company, what it would cost and dah, dah, dah. And it basically got to the point where I was like, I’m pretty much 85 percent moving to London. And I was getting ready and excited. And so, you know, prepared. And my mom kept like. It felt like she kept digging at it, like, why now?

[00:18:44] Or like, do you need to go right now? And, you know, why do you need to go? And eventually one day I just point blank asked her, like, is there a reason that it bothers you that I’m going to London? Or that you keep interjecting? Because it actually makes me feel like you don’t trust my… Instincts like it makes that’s what it feels like like you think that i’m gonna fall flat on my face and not be able to pick up the pieces myself and She actually just admitted when you’re a mom this security alarm goes off where you just get really worried of like What if you run out of money and what if we can’t help you if we lose our jobs and then you’re stuck there and what if you get sick and can’t fly home and it’s that catastrophic thinking and she’s like you’ll understand when you’re a mom like every mom becomes this way and that actually made me have like you said more compassion and empathy for her because I was taking it as like she doesn’t want me to go she’s not happy for me she’s throwing me under the bus and doesn’t think I’m smart and can’t do this myself and in reality she’s like you Really what it comes down to is I’m just worried if something happens, we can’t help you because we’re not going to fly out there.

[00:19:48] And if we don’t have the money that you’re going to be stuck there, I was like, Oh, that’s actually pretty rational and like, reasonable to be worried about your daughter taking on a new job that might not work out. That is something, um, that I think could help too when, if anyone listening is going through this, and people are constantly pestering you and being like, why?

[00:20:07] Why this? I think it’s okay to just be like, is there a reason you’re worried? Or like, you know, can you walk me through why it, it’s like constantly prompting these questions? Cause I want to answer them. And you might get a different answer than you even expected.

[00:20:20] Ela Miranda: Yeah, absolutely. I think that we often get really caught up in like our own feelings and our, our own defensiveness, right?

[00:20:27] Like, I, I feel like you don’t trust me. I feel like all of these things. And when you actually sit down and have the conversation, as scary as that might be sometimes, right? It, it really does open up the door to much deeper connection and understanding. And as someone who, Constantly runs from conflict.

[00:20:47] I do understand that, like, it feels sometimes really scary to have these conversations, but, at the end of the day, I think just trusting that, like, you know, if everything is going to work out for me, then, like, all of these conversations and, like, all of these relationships are going to end up working out the way that they’re meant to.

[00:21:06] And so, you know, We all have our own shit that we’re bringing into, like, everything that we do. It’s that, that saying, right? Wherever you go, there you are. And so there’s always things that you’re going to have to deal with as you navigate relationships. But, I think at this point in my own life, I’ve definitely recognized that, like, it comes down to being able and willing to do that work because building community is something that is going to take effort from you regardless of where you are.

[00:21:38] Chelsea Riffe: 100%.

[00:21:38] Ela Miranda: speaking of, somewhat untraditional paths, right? That people may not always understand. Did you have anyone that you looked up to as like an example or inspiration for how to build this nomadic life in this business?

[00:21:51] Chelsea Riffe: Oh, that is a good question.

[00:21:53] I’m trying to think if I knew people that were truly like digital nomads. I don’t know that I knew people as much as I just listened to people that traveled and worked and I had experienced enough of that in my corporate job where, you know, I would go all over the United States to do meetings and Just hearing, you know, there’s companies that have, uh, offices all over the world.

[00:22:14] And so I was like, you know, there’s people at these offices that will just travel to all the other offices. And so I kind of use that as a model of like, it’s not impossible to pick up and move around, but I actually don’t recall like a specific. Influencer or podcaster or person that I prepared for, you know, who helped me the most was expat groups on Facebook.

[00:22:33] That was when I realized how many people were doing it, because as you know, it’s really uncommon for Americans to not, not only work remote, like this is something, you know, really big and new in the last three, four years, but to do it at a pace where you’re constantly moving around and bopping around.

[00:22:49] Where you don’t even know where you’re going to live in six months. That’s even more uncomfortable and unconventional for Americans. And so for me, I felt very, in a way like Special like I’m the only one that’s doing this like wow no one else in the world is doing like even you ask that question I was like, I don’t really know.

[00:23:08] And then I realized when I got in these expat groups on Facebook like Americans living in Sydney, Australia, I was like oh my god there’s like 3000 people in here and everyone’s doing it and then I started my friend was like you should join. Anywhere that you want to move, you should join an expat group on their Facebook page.

[00:23:23] And so then I found expats in Barcelona, expats in whatever. And just seeing all these people that were doing it really helped me understand, okay, we can actually do this thing. And they’re giving me clear instructions on how to do it. They’ve been through it before.

[00:23:37] Ela Miranda: It is definitely like, I think something that has like really exploded in the past few years. Now that you’ve kind of spent a few years on the road and you have more experience here Has anything changed from how you thought you would set up your business? And is there any support that you’re building for yourself now in order to continue staying on the road?

[00:23:58] Chelsea Riffe: I think the way something that I’ve changed is how often I’m doing live launches and like big group programs because for me, Holding the container of larger people and live launching doesn’t always align with my schedule and bopping around.

[00:24:13] Uh, a good example is like today trying to get the wifi to work for this interview. If you’re doing a live launch and doing group programs and responsible for so many people in a container, it, you just automatically means you need to be. a little more tight with your schedule and where you’re staying and making sure you have that strong Wi Fi, et cetera.

[00:24:31] So for me, at least this year, I knew the pace I was going at. I couldn’t launch anything live. So I decided to really just focus on higher ticket one on ones and I have all of them on payment plans. So even if I don’t. Launch anything, or if I have a down period or whatever the case is, it doesn’t really matter because I have monthly recurring revenue.

[00:24:50] That’s probably one of the biggest changes I’ve made then that I want to keep doing that because it does allow me to forecast things where before, when I started my business, I mean, it was a wild ride. It was like, Yeah, everyone pay in full and then I would spend half of it and save the other half and be like, whoa, I don’t have any money like where am I living in the next two months?

[00:25:08] And that was chaotic. So I quickly learned I need a set amount of income coming in each month. So even clients that want to pay in full, I’m like, I’d rather you not I’d rather put you on a monthly payment plan because it helps me find that stability and know that it’s okay if I need to move or do something again, because I can predict that.

[00:25:26] I would say the other thing is. It’s taking the mornings off and taking Fridays off. It allows me to digest and reflect and process that period where I was traveling with that group. It was four months in a row and there were 26 of us and it was go, go, go, go, go, go, go. Never stopping. I mean, constant socializing experiences, dinners, lunches, things on the weekend, side trips, road trips, like go, go, go.

[00:25:51] And it actually. Got to a point where I felt a bit jaded where I’m like, I don’t even like half these things aren’t even exciting anymore because my dopamine is just being spiked every single day every single minute doing these things. And so I felt very like Unappreciative at times where I’m like it shouldn’t be like this I should be able to digest and process how magical this is.

[00:26:11] So part of my life Moving forward is like not to pack myself up like that right now. I’m in Albania and people are probably like, why are you in Albania? It’s kind of a random country to be in. I purposely chose it because it’s not that touristy It’s off season where I am in is a small beach town I know there’s not a lot of people here that i’m going to run into and so that was very intentional So I had the down time to process and reflect on what’s happened in the last year because it’s been so much travel so Yeah, moving forward, that’s important to me is like bake in that digestion and reflection time, or else you will get really jaded really quickly.

[00:26:44] Ela Miranda: I think it’s really important to like both from a health perspective as well You’re talking about like really focusing on like your body and I think at least i’ve noticed for me and just my mental health in general like having that time to like sit down and have that time to reflect and really like Just rest.

[00:27:02] It’s So, I love that.

[00:27:04] Do you feel like doing things, in a way that is considered like untraditional and a little bit different has helped you to center ease and leisure? Why or why not?

[00:27:14] Chelsea Riffe: Ooh, yeah. yes, because the way I was doing it before, I’ve always been very mindful of like my internal world and how I’m feeling.

[00:27:24] And so when I was working in corporate America, I did try to hire a personal trainer and meditate before work and start going to yin yoga classes and always spending my weekends doing something fun. Like I never worked on the weekends when I worked in corporate America and it still constantly led me to feeling completely burnt out, disconnected from any like bigger purpose or meaning and definitely no leisure time because at the end of the day, I also was in sales and sales is the high risk, high reward jobs where yeah, you get paid a lot of commission if you work your ass off and you are willing to stay the office later to 9 p. m. or work through your lunch break or. Yeah, sometimes working on vacation. I remember being in Budapest at the hostel with a group around us trying to like Send a spreadsheet on the hostel computer and i’m just like this is not how this vacation was supposed to go so Being able to do things this way not only has it Obviously freed up my schedule.

[00:28:23] Like I now choose my own time and when I want to work with people and how I want to work with people. So like automatically by default, I already get to experience a new lifestyle that allows me to do more leisurely and playful and pleasurable things, but just like confirmation bias works, I’ve now found a ton of other people that do this and the ways they live their lives.

[00:28:43] So now I get to see like. For example, one of my clients plays tennis for like three hours a day. And during the morning, he’s just like writing and creating and doing all these fun things. And when he was back home, he used to surf for like two hours. And in my mind, I’m like, what is he doing? Cause he has a very successful practice and what’s going on here.

[00:29:02] And right now he’s in Italy with his girlfriend. And they rented this villa for a month. And then I was able to see like, Oh, this is another example of someone who’s living very unconventionally. And the way they built their schedule is they just do like three back to backs each day. So it’s just like 12 to three is his back to back.

[00:29:19] So all morning. And then every time after three, he has all this time all day to do everything that he wants. So that’s just one example of, I don’t, I would have never found someone like that. Had I stayed in my structure because it’s just natural, right? What’s the, what’s the term I’m looking for? homogeny, is that the word?

[00:29:36] you’re just When you’re in a group of people, that’s what you’re used to. So when you’re working around a bunch of corporate American people, working late hours and 80 hour weeks and barely taking their PTO, you think that’s normal, but then when you go the opposite way and you’re like, Oh, let me try to take Fridays off and maybe I won’t work eight hours a day and let’s see what else is out there that becomes your norm and you start to attract people and see more people like that.

[00:30:00] So for me, I do think it absolutely helped me. Start to center leisure and prioritize things outside of just work tasks, because also, I think there’s a period where I hit a level of success in my business where my eyes are kind of open to like, this is just what it’s going to be at every level times 10.

[00:30:18] So you have the 10, 000 month. Oh, wow. You actually don’t feel this weird, magical feeling that everyone advertises on Instagram. So what is it going to feel like if I make a million or 5 million or whatever the case is? And it really started to hit me of like, my quality of life is actually the thing that I prioritize over my monthly income.

[00:30:37] So my quality of life does not have to be expensive. I love the beach. I love having a nice dinner here and there. But mostly what I love to do is be outside and hang out with people like genuinely. I like to just hang out with people and go talk and hang out and walk around all day. So when I thought about that, I’m like, Then how can you build your life like that?

[00:30:55] Just reverse engineering. How can I have more free time to hang out with my friends or be in places where the sun is shining and not have to work, again, 75 hours a week just to be able to hopefully catch up with a friend on a Sunday brunch? It’s definitely not easy. It’s hard all the time. Like, again, the scheduling and constantly figuring out where to live and the mental, like, overload of deciding, Is this place safe?

[00:31:19] And what’s the currency? And where should I live? Da da da But at the end of the day, I know for a fact I wouldn’t have gone to this place where I’m at right now of really understanding how I want to spend my time had I not taken that leap.

[00:31:30] Ela Miranda: Yeah, absolutely. I think like, that’s one of the core things that I end up teaching people is I genuinely believe that like at the end of the day, everybody actually knows what it is that they want to do and what it is that they need.

[00:31:44] But we’re often really disconnected from it because of culture and lifestyle and like, especially when it comes to neurodivergence, you’ve just been, taught for so long that, like, you shouldn’t acknowledge your needs, and you shouldn’t, ask for those things, and so, getting to that point of recognizing, you know, these are my values, these are the things that I need, and, being able to advocate for yourself, Is the first step to building any system because there are millions of different ways to do anything right and there are so many people who like have success and have done things but if you can’t define that for yourself.

[00:32:21] Those formulas aren’t necessarily going to be the things that end up working for you. You’re just kind of like shoving yourself into another box just because it looks different doesn’t make any changes there.

[00:32:32] Chelsea Riffe: Absolutely.

[00:32:33] Ela Miranda: One of the core principles of system design is the idea that each part has an impact on the whole. And I talk about this a lot when it comes to balance, right? That your life has an impact on your business just as your business has an impact on your life. So how would you say that this nomadic lifestyle that you’ve chosen, had an impact on your business? Like I know we’ve talked about a few things, but can you maybe go into a little bit more depth there?

[00:33:05] Chelsea Riffe: Yeah, I would say the first one is I’m a lot more patient and flexible in my business where that wasn’t the case when I worked in. Like corporate America again, you know, it was like a sin to be a few minutes late to a call or have to reschedule last minute. And now just with the lifestyle I live, I’m like, I get it.

[00:33:24] Like Wi Fi doesn’t work or you’re traveling and you miss your plane or whatever the case is. And I don’t, I really want to opt out of urgency culture and like adhering to these very strict, harsh, masculine, like rules of you have to do things this way. And so that is a huge thing that changed for me was.

[00:33:42] It’s okay. We don’t need to like charge someone 500 for rescheduling five minutes before where I’ve been in those situations where I see clauses of like, if you have to reschedule, we’ll, we’ll charge you this amount of money. And I’m like, that’s just not how I want to run my business. So I’m a lot more like soft with my business in that way.[00:34:00]

[00:34:00] Not in a way where I’m taking advantage of like I think people do really respect my time because to be honest because of my limited time I’m like, it’s okay to reschedule but we might not be able to talk for like two weeks because of how weird my schedule is. But I think that’s something that I’m, again, much more understanding of now.

[00:34:16] I think the other thing is. I’m very detail oriented because of both of these things. I actually didn’t realize this until probably the last two weeks, but you know, when you’re doing something, you’re just used to it. And so you’re like, Oh, it’s not a big deal. And then someone’s like, no, I never looked at it that way.

[00:34:32] And I realized that with certain things that I’m very like proactive with my client’s work, where I can anticipate a lot of things before they even realize they need it. And I’ll already come to them with a plan of like, Hey, let me be proactive and already show you the solutions. And so when, when I’m coming and bringing it up, I know that they’re going to ask me, well, what do you think?

[00:34:52] And I already have the options ready to go. That definitely came from traveling where I’m like, I always have to be thinking and planning ahead. I can’t again, just be like, oops, I don’t know where I’m living next week. LOL. Let me hope that I can find a place. It’s like, no, I have to look ahead and be proactive.

[00:35:07] And if this Airbnb cancels, what’s plan B. You know, if I can’t bring this bag, do I have a way to downsize? Can I donate somewhere? Like I’m really good at problem solving now. And so that problem solving and detail oriented nature, those both like feed each other from travel and business. I would say the last thing is, probably just creativity, right?

[00:35:27] There are so many things now that I’ll be. Reading a book about something so random and then podcasting with someone, and then I’ll go to the beach and then I’ll go take a plane ride. And like somehow all these things start to connect. And I’m like, Oh my gosh, this really is what I do in my business or what I talk about my business and vice versa.

[00:35:44] I’m trying to think of a specific example, but like, This happens literally almost every day where I’ll just be like doing yoga on my balcony and a download will come to me and I’m like, Oh, I should talk about that on the podcast. But wait, I actually did just talk about that with a client on a call the other day.

[00:35:58] So, whoa, this feels like a weird synchronicity. And I’m like, I don’t think that’s an accident. I think a lot of us, our business is like this self actualization. Expression of what we already are doing or believe in or value. And so it’s not that surprising, but yeah, that pops up all the time.

[00:36:13] Ela Miranda: love to hear that and I think it’s really interesting the point that you’ve made about how a lot of times what we’re doing is very much like aligned with the things that we believe in and the values and the things that, You know, you are talking about all the time.

[00:36:27] That’s actually one of the reasons why I started this podcast is because I noticed like I’m having the same conversation over and over and over again with so many different people. And so, how can I, you know, optimize my time a little bit. And kind of like have these conversations, in a way that’s Not necessarily less one on one, but just that, you know, you have an understanding of where I’m coming from and the values that I hold, like, before we even get to the table and have the conversation. And I just think it’s really interesting too, to see, like, how the lifestyle that you build can absolutely, like, have an impact on the things that you’re thinking about and the things that you’re saying, like,

[00:37:09] I think prioritizing that downtime for creatives is so important, especially when the work that you’re doing is knowledge work, right? Like, you are selling your own ideas and your own, like, concepts, and so to have that time to process things and to, have experiences so that you can build on your own knowledge is so important and I always love hearing how people have prioritized that and like have come to some really cool realizations because everybody knows so many cool things and I love to hear about it.

[00:37:48] Okay. since the, podcast name is Building Blocks and Puzzle Pieces, right? One of the things I love asking people is has there been an unexpected puzzle that you’ve had to solve recently? Or just during your travels when it comes to your business or your life?

[00:38:05] Chelsea Riffe: Oh my gosh, 100 percent to the point where I signed up for a systems course because I was like, I need to figure this out was Basically my daily tasks and then other projects I’m working on. So for example, travel in and of itself is a whole like part time job.

[00:38:22] I am constantly figuring out where I’m going, the cost of living, where to stay, flights, blah, blah, blah. That again takes up a lot of my time. Now add my one on one clients who I work with at a very high level. It’s not just like quick pick my brain calls. These are deep content strategy calls. We’re outlining things.

[00:38:39] We’re building SOPs. We’re mapping out content calendars for six months. Like it’s a lot of brain power. And then on top of that. I have creative stuff that I want to do outside of those two things, which is I want to create a sub stack. I have a podcast. I might want to start another podcast. I want to write a book and all these things.

[00:38:56] I genuinely had magical thinking about where I’m like, you’ll just get them all done one day. And like, You know, one day you’ll just I literally thought this that I could just go somewhere for a week and like not work and somehow bang out like a whole New York Times bestseller book. I’m like, you don’t even have published work like it was truly delusional.

[00:39:16] And I just kept thinking like this is how it’s going to work. One day you’re going to sprint. through two weeks and you’re going to figure out your finances and then you’re going to dedicate another month to writing and you’re just going to write a book. And I realized obviously after a lot of trial and error, that just wasn’t happening.

[00:39:28] And so I needed to learn not only how to manage my time better, but how to build systems where to your point, things are impacting another, but not. Domino effect, like crashing it all to the ground where my go to method, honestly, up until probably like three months ago was basically wake up and attend to the most urgent tasks first and the clients who pay me the most, and then everything else comes second.

[00:39:51] And that just wasn’t working long term because I never got to my creative projects. I never developed a writing habit. My podcast was always done last minute. Actually, at one point I had to like stop the podcast because I had no systems or plan in place and it was always done, done very haphazardly.

[00:40:06] So eventually I was like, you need to learn this skill because it’s also affecting how I hire people. I hired a virtual assistant and I had a business operations person. And at one point My business operations person was, managing the VA. And I remember at one point being so lost in the sauce of what we were working on that we got on a call and I was like, I don’t even, I couldn’t even tell you the status of these projects that I assigned to everybody because we don’t have a system in place.

[00:40:33] And it got to the point where I would check in with the VA and she’d be like. I’m really confused what we’re working on and the timelines and the priorities. Like this is very confusing to me. And that’s always been an insecurity of mine is that I’m like bad at managing people. I actually asked my old job when I worked in corporate America to take me out of the manager managerial position because I don’t like keeping track of like projects at that bigger level.

[00:40:54] And that’s when I learned. If you want to be a creative person and usually have your hand in all these different pots, you usually do need to learn a project management system to be able to manage those projects. So keeping it all in my brain and thinking, Oh, let me just dedicate like a week to each project.

[00:41:08] It just wasn’t working. So that’s something that’s very prevalent as we speak right now that I’m working on is building systems that I can prioritize, not only better, but projects according to what I value and what I have the space for.

[00:41:21] Ela Miranda: I think that concept of like keeping things in your head is so common.

[00:41:26] It’s something I hear over and over again. This is something that is like so different for me that sometimes I’m like, I just don’t understand.

[00:41:34] I understand that, like, it is common enough for everyone else that they’re, like, so resistant to, writing things down and having a plan. And there are so many other ways to do it. Like, I’m not saying, you immediately have to sit down and write a list every morning or whatever, but, just, like, not keeping everything in your head, I think, is, like, the number one key to success when it comes to systems and personally just for my life, like,

[00:42:00] Chelsea Riffe: yeah, yeah, I remember on my plane ride, this is like low key why I love trains and planes too, because of that lack of wifi and access to other people. Cause you have time to do that thinking and brain dump. And on my plane ride over here, I remember taking out a sheet of paper and dividing it into categories like finances, work and creative, and just writing down a million things I wanted to do.

[00:42:22] And I’m like, whoa, like the fact that all of this has just been sitting in your head and you had nowhere to look at this or prioritize it or even map out the tasks. That’s something I realized literally in the last week that I’m horrible at. I would put projects on my task list. So it’d be like launch Substack on my like Tuesday to do list.

[00:42:40] I’m like, do you know how many steps go into launching a Substack? And so that was something that to your point, writing it down and seeing it has helped immensely. And I also think to your point of like neurodivergent thinkers and people that think nonlinear, especially strategists like myself, I think a lot of us have really good memories.

[00:42:59] I feel like I have a really good memory. Like I, I do feel like I have a photographic memory and I tend to confuse that with. Oh, so you can just not have systems and you can just like remember it all. And it’s like, it doesn’t even matter if I remember it all. Of course I remember it all because I’m writing it all down.

[00:43:14] It’s like, I don’t have a visual to prioritize things. So everything just feels urgent all the time. And that everything’s on fire every day. I’m like, I know there’s a better way to run my business. So totally understand writing things down and systems, like are the key to your freedom and creativity.

[00:43:31] Ela Miranda: And I love that point too. I know for myself what will happen is I will just kind of get stuck in a thought loop where like, I will constantly be coming back to the thing because my brain is trying to remember it.

[00:43:46] And so that’s where all of that urgency comes from is it’s like, Oh, like, I am like constantly remembering new things and constantly coming back to things and it’s like if I just write it down, or I put it in a box or I like, you know, have an audio message like there are so many different ways to do it that’s not necessarily the point. The point is that, you have to have that place to, let it live so that

[00:44:10] Chelsea Riffe: Yes.

[00:44:10] Ela Miranda: it’s not coming back in that constant, like, thought loop so that you can come back to it. Because that process of review and being able to, come back and, understand how your work and the things that you’re doing are having an impact both on your life and also on like your output, you know, the things that you want to do, the things you want to create, is so difficult always, but is what the systems are there for, right?

[00:44:37] So that it captures all of those things and it makes review so much easier. Because constantly trying to like come back and like read through journal pages has just never been something that works for me, so.

[00:44:49] Chelsea Riffe: No, and to your point of review, this is truly something the last like three weeks that I realized I had no process around.

[00:44:56] And let’s use the point of leisure, this is something that I’ve really come to grasp this whole year is like my free time and how I prioritize my life and schedule and everything is based on the free time and leisure that I have in my calendar. And so I’m like, obviously I want to do a podcast series or episode on this and really break this down.

[00:45:15] But I’m like, I want it to be a little more research. Like, I want to look up the history of leisure and like, where did the 40 hour work week come from? And why does it feel so taboo to even say the word leisure? And why do we like, get so scared if someone says they only work five hours a day? Like, I want to do research around that.

[00:45:31] And again, going back to my like, magical thinking, I was like, Oh, you’ll just have a free day. That you’ll do some research and I’m like, that’s not true. I have a lot of free days. I usually have Fridays off and I’ve never gotten around to like researching this topic. So that’s something I’ve realized too is.

[00:45:47] My calendar does not need to be always filled up with client facing meetings. I think this is a really big, like ideology that was ingrained in me and my sales job, because it was based on how many calls are you doing? How many emails are you outputting? Because that was how you generated leads and sold more deals.

[00:46:04] So that’s something that’s again, it’s really hard for me to, to this day, understand that it’s not serving me, but still do it. I was just talking to my therapist literally two days ago where It feels weird sometimes to see free days on my calendar and I’ll just say yes to things and be like, yeah, let’s do it.

[00:46:20] Let’s do it. Let’s do it. And I’m like, why do we have to do it this week? Like, why can’t we just wait till the end of the month or space this out or not even do it this month? Like, what’s the urgency? And again, I know personally that’s something I’m working on is building in that, like, review and research time for the bigger projects that I want to work on.

[00:46:36] Ela Miranda: Yeah, absolutely. I think it’s so funny It’s such a common idea to have like, oh, like I can just like research in my free time. Like that’s not like a whole job that some people have.

[00:46:48] Chelsea Riffe: Right. Right. I’m just like, oh, I’ll just do it on Friday. I’m like, you don’t even know like what you’re doing. What are you talking about?

[00:46:54] Ela Miranda: Yeah, and I’ve definitely, like, fallen into that trap myself, right, where I’m like, oh, well, like, obviously, I will just, like, read this, massive pile of books that I have when I have free time, instead of, like, scrolling social media, when it’s like, but scrolling social media is easy, and I have systems set up for that, and I don’t have systems set up for reading books, like, how is your life designed around these things, you know?

[00:47:19] Chelsea Riffe: It’s so funny when you realize that, that you’re like, I actually do have the time, I’m just not structuring it in the way that I want to, and that’s a big learning lesson I’ve gone through in the last two months as well.

[00:47:29] Ela Miranda: Mhm. And I think it like, also comes back to that understanding, you know, what is it that I want, and being able to review those times, being able to Be compassionate with yourself enough to like recognize, Hey, you know, I’m not spending my time in the ways that I want to.

[00:47:47] That doesn’t make me a horrible person. That doesn’t mean that I’m a failure, right? Like it doesn’t mean anything at all about me. I can just change my behavior. And I think it’s so interesting that Even when change is [00:48:00] such a constant in your lifestyle, that it’s still like. Recognizing where you need to change and being able to make those changes is still not always the easiest thing to do.

[00:48:10] Chelsea Riffe: No, it’s, because you, we really have this fallacy that one day we will all just figure it out. Like, we won’t have a to do list, we won’t feel stressed, we’ll be completely content at ease. And this is something I talk to my therapist about too, and she always reminds me, and I hope it will help anyone listening, is like, and then what?

[00:48:30] Let’s say you clear your email inbox and magically you have no emails for like six months, which would be like, that would never happen. Or you get the client and you ace the project and you read the 25, 000 books that you had piled up and you finally wrote the book. It’s like, And then what? You’re always gonna want more, like, it’s human nature to just keep moving forward and making progress, so even when you get all those things, it’s never going to be like, I’m done, the decks are cleared, we can just like, go to bed now, that’s just not how we operate, and so, this is something I’m really fascinated in recently, is like, why do we think clearing the decks Is like a real thing that’s gonna happen for all of us one day, which is not, and so that, that gives me some, honestly some peace inside of being like, you know what, we’re never gonna be done with everything, we might not get to everything, I might not read the 50 books I wanted to read this year, but good thing I have the rest of my life.

[00:49:23] Ela Miranda: Absolutely. I think that concept, right, of, Urgency is so prevalent in everything we do and without awareness, I think it’s really easy to fall back into that. It’s just very interesting to me to see everything is interconnected, right? The work that you’re doing on yourself, mentally, to unlearn, like, different patterns of behavior and all of those things, absolutely have an impact on everything that you do, whether it’s , business or life and, to see how, all of those things Interconnect and the lessons that you learn like, Lexi from Pretty Decent often talks about the growth spiral, right?

[00:50:02] That like you constantly come back to the same lesson and the same problems just with a little bit more knowledge now that you’ve made your way through the spiral. And I love that concept because I often find myself, coming back to the same lessons. Like, I always have to remind myself that it is okay to rest.

[00:50:18] Chelsea Riffe: It’s okay.

[00:50:20] Ela Miranda: It’s okay. I can sit down and the world will not end.

[00:50:23] Chelsea Riffe: It’s wild when you discover that.

[00:50:25] Ela Miranda: I know and it seems so counterintuitive like everything in my body is like absolutely the fuck not and then I sit down and it’s like oh actually this is true just like it has always been proven to me. So

[00:50:41] Chelsea Riffe: I so agree with you. I literally am going through that right now where I slept in the other day because I had a really bad night of sleep and I basically woke up at 11 and then I went to the gym and cooked and I have slower mornings like I don’t get up and like get on my laptop so by the time I even really started working it was like 3 or 3 30 and I just felt so bad about myself like I just felt like a piece of shit like why are you starting your work day at 3 30 and then I looked at my to do list and I got like So anxious, like you have to get these 10 things done.

[00:51:09] And like I said, I’m not that great at prioritizing. I’m like, usually you cannot get 10 things done on a normal day. Why do you think you’re going to get all these 10 things done in the next four hours? And, again, going back to my therapist, as you can tell, I have a lot of lessons to share from our session a few days ago, but she was just like, how do you know when you’re done with a day’s work?

[00:51:28] You know, like, do you have a cutoff or do you have an energetic capacity or something? And that really woke me up to like, yeah, I don’t really know. Like, is it 8 PM? Is it when I check off everything on my to do list? Is it when I feel tired? And that’s something that to your point, your body is like, no, you have to work.

[00:51:44] You have to get done. You can’t take the foot off the gas. When in reality, it’s like, It goes back to the whole concept of like, you feel like you have to clear the decks, but that’s not a real thing. I’m reading this book right now called 4, 000 Weeks. Highly recommend. I’m only like maybe 30 percent through it.

[00:52:00] And it talks about this whole concept of like productivity and efficiency being an absolute trap. Like it’s truly a psychological illusion. And it is making me feel so much better about not trying to get through the 20 tasks that I assign myself each day.

[00:52:14] Ela Miranda: Oh, I love that. I think that’s one of the biggest things that, review has really taught me is that, when I look at my to do list, and it is longer than my arm, and I immediately feel overwhelmed just looking at it, like, that is a sign that something is wrong.

[00:52:30] Chelsea Riffe: Right? Absolutely not good

[00:52:34] Ela Miranda: shit sometimes happens, you know, and sometimes things like back up and whatever, but it’s just not like, that’s not how I want to live my life. And if like, I’m constantly doing busy work to the point that I can never take rest, then something is wrong in like my business or the ways in which I’m doing things.

[00:52:52] And so that is absolutely like we said, you know, a lesson that we’re always constantly coming back to, but definitely been a really big lesson for me

[00:53:02] Chelsea Riffe: yeah, you need to read this book. It literally talks about this. It’s like, it’s actually illogical, like you cannot make yourself do more than what you can do, but we do it every day.

[00:53:12] We’re like, I technically know I can’t do two full on projects today. But I’m going to try and it’s like, why, why wouldn’t you just move that project to next week? And it’s just like you said, that sense of urgency of I have to get everything done, all my projects, all my goals, all my visions by the end of this year.

[00:53:28] When at the end of the day, like time is arbitrary anyway. December 31st is a made up day. Like all this stuff is so funny when you just zoom out and you’re like. Time is not real. Urgency is something we made up. Like, it’s okay. And when you decide what you really want to focus on, this has been probably the biggest lesson of this book for me.

[00:53:46] And again, I’m not even like halfway done. It’s just, you are going to have to make a choice of what you want to focus on and what you’re going to have to say no to. And that’s the hardest reality because we genuinely think we can just say yes to everything and we can squeeze it all in. When in reality, we’ve seen it.

[00:54:01] It doesn’t work. If it worked, we’d all be doing it and we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

[00:54:05] Ela Miranda: Oh, absolutely. And I think that’s a really interesting concept too, like the things that you can say no to. I’ve definitely been, really interested in the idea that, like, everything you do is going to be some kind of a challenge, and so you get to choose which challenges you want to go through, right? I am moving out of the country in, like, the next few weeks.

[00:54:31] Chelsea Riffe: Exciting. Love Mexico City. So excited.

[00:54:34] Ela Miranda: And I’ve had a lot of people be like, oh my god, you know, so many challenges are associated with this. And I’ve really had to like sit down and be like, okay, all of that is true, right.

[00:54:45] It will be difficult. It will be a challenging, and it is difficult and challenging for me to like make my way through school, getting a degree and like living this corporate America lifestyle that I’ve been living and realizing that like, All of these things are equally challenging and so it’s a question of like where are my priorities and what are the things that I want to do because life is just challenging so if we’re like searching for, you know, some magical utopia where like nothing is a problem like we’re just never going to get there.

[00:55:21] Chelsea Riffe: 100 percent agree. And it’s interesting too about the travel thing like circling back to everything we talked about is. I find it more challenging to live in the United States, genuinely like full hard stop the amount of like, not only just energy that people value there. I can’t even get into right now, but what I mean is like out here, I don’t have a car payment.

[00:55:44] I don’t have a mortgage. I don’t have a utility bill. I don’t have to worry about keeping up with the Joneses. I don’t have access to Amazon prime. I don’t have a Sephora, like all these things that weighed me down back when I was home of like valuing material things and a car payment and let me I’m stressed out now because I want to upgrade or should I buy a home?

[00:56:03] I need to work on my credit score. Like none of that happens out here. So to me, I’m like, I actually find it easier on my mental health, easier on my wallet, easier to run my business when I’m not in the United States. So if that gives you any consolation, I hope it helps because I actually think you’re going to find it easier to live in Mexico City.

[00:56:22] Ela Miranda: That is absolutely the hope. I do appreciate that. So, now that we’ve kind of, kind of made a full circle here, I’ve very much enjoyed this conversation. So, if people want to connect with you, learn more about your work, and you as you’re traveling, how can people find you?

[00:56:40] Chelsea Riffe: Yeah, it’s basically my first and last name everywhere.

[00:56:42] So ChelseaRiffe. com, at ChelseaRiffe on Instagram. You can listen to my podcast. It’s called In My Non Expert Opinion. That is on Apple, Spotify, anywhere you listen to podcasts. And if you want to work together, go to my website. I have one on one spots as well as the course to help you launch podcasts.

[00:56:57] And then I also have a video library that can take you through different skills like pitching or monetizing or interviewing. So that’s always available. And then sign up for my newsletter. I’m going to be writing more. I’m really trying to de invest. I don’t know if that’s the right word from Instagram. So I’m going to be writing a lot more in my newsletter and podcasting. So that’s pretty much where you’ll find me getting the most deep.

[00:57:17] Ela Miranda: Awesome. Definitely check out the podcast. And run, don’t walk to go work with Chelsea. Or, walk as we are divesting from urgency, but you know,

[00:57:27] Chelsea Riffe: Yes. Yes. Light, light, brisk walk.

[00:57:33] Ela Miranda: Take the opportunity while it is offered to you and rest assured that it’ll all work out.

[00:57:39] Chelsea Riffe: Amen. Thank you so much.

[00:57:41] Ela Miranda: Yes. Thank you.